[Phil]

♠A ♥JT9xxx ♦Ax ♣Txxx

IMPs. I don't know what the vulnerability is.

1♣ - (p) - 1♥ - (p)
2♥ - (x) - ?

[rduran1216]

 Phil, on 2012-November-27, 20:41, said:

♠A ♥JT9xxx ♦Ax ♣Txxx

IMPs. I don't know what the vulnerability is.

1♣ - (p) - 1♥ - (p)
2♥ - (x) - ?

4H?

[BunnyGo]

4H.

[mikeh]

The only reason I can think of for not bidding 4♥ is to play headgames with the opps, because of a fear that we can't defend (or don't want to defend) 4♠. There is a real risk that LHO has 5 spades and a stiff club: say 5=3=4=1, and will bid 4♠ knowing of the double fit, just as we intend to bid our game.

So we might want to try the effect of 3♥, and then 4♥ when 'pushed'.

But in my experience, the experiment usually doesn't work. Either we miss a game when they don't balance, or they were never bidding 4♠, or partner was going to be happy to apply the axe.

So I keep it simple and bid the 'obvious' 4♥.

[BunnyGo]

I still nominate Phil as a crazy one.

[the hog]

4H also.

[MrAce]

 Phil, on 2012-November-27, 20:41, said:

♠A ♥JT9xxx ♦Ax ♣Txxx

IMPs. I don't know what the vulnerability is.

1♣ - (p) - 1♥ - (p)
2♥ - (x) - ?

Wrong forum !!

[P_Marlowe]

You could redouble, which may prevent them from bidding 4S over 4H.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[PhilKing]

We are almost cold for Six Clubs if partner is unbalalanced.

eg Jxx Axx x AKxxxx

I would ask whether the delayed take-out was systemically 3-suited with opening values or spades and diamonds and potentially much lighter.

[dake50]

I think their double has won this hand.
They are well placed to know 4S is cheap against 4H.
Little to suggest now except 4H is our best contract.

[Phil]

 MrAce, on 2012-November-28, 00:51, said:

Wrong forum !!

So true!! But the person that suggests a slam try is an Expert, so I thought maybe this was a good place.

[Zelandakh]

I have a theory question for folks. I know a lot of the posters here play 1♣ - 1♥; 2♥ - 4♣ as a splinter. I also know that many play that all jumps in competition show length. So what should the sequence 1♣ - 1♥; 2♥ - (X or 2♠) - 4♣ mean? It occurs to me that if all the "natural" meanings are unimportant (admittedly a big if) we might use it to show club support and extra heart length, to involve partner in the decision on whether to commit to the 5 level or not. But that also makes it even easier for them to bid 4♠ of course so it is probably a bad idea - am still interested what everyone plays it as though. In any case, this is a wtp 4♥ unless we are feeling "creative".

[MrAce]

 PhilKing, on 2012-November-28, 05:50, said:

We are almost cold for Six Clubs if partner is unbalalanced.

eg Jxx Axx x AKxxxx

I would ask whether the delayed take-out was systemically 3-suited with opening values or spades and diamonds and potentially much lighter.

Everyone give PhilKing a warm hug, his reply shows now he started to get a good grasp of how to be a good BBF member !!


"We are ALMOST cold, IF pd is unbalanced" Of course unbalanced means the hand he gave, and not other unbalanced hands, but then again it is at best an "almost" cold. And by asking to opps their delayed double, we can learn all we want what pd raised with, when opponents are remaining silent the rest of the auction with their 10 card ♦ fit + 9 card ♠ fit + as much HCP as our side !!

Welcome to forums Phil !! I was wondering why your improvement was so slow in forums. But what they say " better later than never"

[PhilKing]

 MrAce, on 2012-November-28, 11:16, said:

Everyone give PhilKing a warm hug, his reply shows now he started to get a good grasp of how to be a good BBF member !!


"We are ALMOST cold, IF pd is unbalanced" Of course unbalanced means the hand he gave, and not other unbalanced hands, but then again it is at best an "almost" cold. And by asking to opps their delayed double, we can learn all we want what pd raised with, when opponents are remaining silent the rest of the auction with their 10 card ♦ fit + 9 card ♠ fit + as much HCP as our side !!

Welcome to forums Phil !! I was wondering why your improvement was so slow in forums. But what they say " better later than never"

My bad! Partner is balanced, obviously, probably with some stuff in spades ...

♠Kxxx ♥AQxx ♦xxx ♣Ax

And I haven't said what I do yet - I am sitting on the fence until I see the hand or pick up more clues.

[Phil]

 PhilKing, on 2012-November-28, 11:24, said:

I am sitting on the fence until I see the hand or pick up more clues.

which is a violation of the BBF user guide,

"Don't defend calls you don't intend to make yourself"

[ArtK78]

Most everyone feels that this is a WTP 4♥ call, and I agree with them.

As for making a slam try, this will probably result in our getting to 250% of the slams that make. Partner could have a lot of good hands on this auction that have little or no play for slam, and it may be difficult to get him to slow down if we make any move at all. At best, we could arrive at the five level (without any actions by the opponents) when the 5 level is not safe.

I am not going to look for slam even though it is possible opposite the perfect hand. PhilKing's second example has partner opening 1♣ with xxx Ax in the minors. I know that my partners don't open 1♣ on Ax even when the 3 card diamond holding is three small. But he could not put the pointed suit king in diamonds or else partner would clearly have opened 1♦. And, even with that construction, slam is on a hook. Given my preferences, I would avoid any slam that is on a hook, as they are inevitably less than 50% (however slightly). And this one is no different, as there are some oddball constructions which make the slam less than 50% (an opening ruff in a pointed suit is obviously one, I am not sure if there are any more).

[MrAce]

 PhilKing, on 2012-November-28, 11:24, said:

My bad! Partner is balanced, obviously, probably with some stuff in spades ...

♠Kxxx ♥AQxx ♦xxx ♣Ax

And I haven't said what I do yet - I am sitting on the fence until I see the hand or pick up more clues.

My main problem is that, checking my file, I have not defined that 2♠ is still a relay here.

English is your native language, not mine, so correct me if i am wrong. Cherry picking a hand is ok, actually very normal in BBF. But when you say something like "We are almost cold IF pd is unbalanced" i understand it as to be the case when pd has unbalanced hands most of the time, not this cherry picked hand only. Am i wrong ?

 PhilKing, on 2012-November-28, 05:50, said:

I would ask whether the delayed take-out was systemically 3-suited with opening values or spades and diamonds and potentially much lighter.

What would be the answer by your opponents that will turn you on for slam ? And what difference does it make when pd already bid 2♥ and you know that they have close to half of the deck regardless of how light or strong they make this dbl. If doubler is light his pd has the rest or vice versa. I believe this topic doesn't belong to expert forum but, since it is posted here, what kind of shape are you expecting to hear for their double. You know very well that it shows ♦+♠,he may even have 3 hearts that was not strong enough to dbl at the first place, he may have side clubs, or he may just be 4-5 in spades and diamonds.

I understand if the answer is "3 suit take-out" this auto turns you off for slam, since you will know your clubs are breaking badly even with this cherry pick hand. But you are conveniently skipping the fact that, when you give your pd this hand, opponents will be holding 19 cards in their suits with as much strength as your side, whatever you choose to bid now, you know pd will not be able to cooperate with you at 3 or 4 level, and i suspect not even at 5 level.

Slam, even with the cherry picked hand, is very tuff to bid in an uncontested auction. Now you have an oportunity to get your master BBF degree, tell me how you would investigate and find that slam (after succesfully investigating opponents and their delayed DBL style) and at the same time avoid misunderstandings. I really want to learn how one would be able to spot stiff ♦ vs his Ax and A-AK in rounded suits, and 6 card clubs.

If you are really trying to find this slam when pd has the cherry pick, i am giving you 2♠ bid as a relay, as a bonus for your efforts to find that slam like a good BBFer. But i am telling you pal, these opps have the tendency to bid, and bid A LOT, when they have 19 card double fit and a lot of hcp Good luck with your 2♠ relay and investigations.

[BunnyGo]

I'll admit that while writing "4H" above, I did think, "hmm, we may have a double fit--if partner has all the controls in hearts and clubs, then things could be good. I wonder if there is a bid showing a mild slam try and this double fit." Then I decided that my hand is barely that good since my aces are in short suits and partner needs to have a near perfect hand and the length in clubs--just bid 4H.

[PhilKing]

 MrAce, on 2012-November-28, 12:48, said:

English is your native language, not mine, so correct me if i am wrong. Cherry picking a hand is ok, actually very normal in BBF. But when you say something like "We are almost cold IF pd is unbalanced" i understand it as to be the case when pd has unbalanced hands most of the time, not this cherry picked hand only. Am i wrong?

OK, OK! I bid 4♥. I'm sorry for all the cherry picking.

All the evidence suggest pard has a weak NT with four hearts. If he doubles 4♥, fine. If he does not, I will take the push.

Phil is mad, or has a mad partner. I have no idea what he did, but presumably it was something crazy, hence the thread. Maybe he relayed.

[MrAce]

 PhilKing, on 2012-November-28, 18:27, said:

OK, OK! I bid 4♥. I'm sorry for all the cherry picking.

All the evidence suggest pard has a weak NT with four hearts. If he doubles 4♥, fine. If he does not, I will take the push.

Phil is mad, or has a mad partner. I have no idea what he did, but presumably it was something crazy, hence the thread. Maybe he relayed.

Scenario 1; I think he just bid 4♥ and they missed the slam, and someone suggested that he could have bid better and seek for slam, and that pissed him off.


Scenario 2 ; His pd (or a team mate) had this hand and made a slam try , they went down and that pissed him off.