[Liversidge]

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1♠, 4♠, 2♣? We play 3 weak 2's. Advice appreciated on the pros and cons of each bid. It's a regularly debated topic at our club on hands like this- 7+ card major, not quite 9 playing tricks.
I came across Namyats last week. Don't know if that's worthwhile enough to justify giving up the 4 level prempt in a minor.

My agreement with my partner is that we require 9 playing tricks and 4 defensive tricks for a 2♣ opening, so we would open 1♠ here, thinking it's a bit strong for a preempt. Some good (by our local club standard) players open 2♣regularly with 8 playing tricks, a very good 6-7 card suit and 16 HCP+ , despite the fact that my references, including several posters on this board, advise against it. I wonder if it's because opps at our club level rarely compete after a 2♣ opening so they don't get pushed too high.

[eagles123]

I spade is clear - your too good for 4s and not good enough for 2c. I mean 4s is bad but 2c is horrendous

[Tramticket]

If you open 4S, partner will not look for a slam without considerable values and controls. With 7+ playing tricks, 2 first round controls and a second round control, you can envisage slam on many possible hands for partner. It is much better to open 1S and jump rebid spades to show your playing strength. I would open 1S rather than 4S, even opposite a passed hand.

You are a long way short of 2C.

[Cyberyeti]

1st/2nd seat, 1♠, 3rd seat I have much less of a problem with 4♠, there is a pretty narrow selection of hands where 6 makes but partner can't open.

Your problems aren't over, what are you going to do over 2♣ or 2♥ from partner ?

[1eyedjack]

 Cyberyeti, on 2016-June-12, 08:41, said:

Your problems aren't over, what are you going to do over 2♣ or 2♥ from partner ?

3S wtp?

[Liversidge]

 eagles123, on 2016-June-12, 08:05, said:

I spade is clear - your too good for 4s and not good enough for 2c. I mean 4s is bad but 2c is horrendous

Swop the ♠J for the ♠Q and I have 9 playing tricks but only 15 HCP. I feel a bit stupid asking this as I know it would be a bad bid, but not why, so that I can explain to partner why it's not a good idea.

[nige1]

 Liversidge, on 2016-June-12, 07:40, said:

1♠, 4♠, 2♣? We play 3 weak 2's. Advice appreciated on the pros and cons of each bid. It's a regularly debated topic at our club on hands like this- 7+ card major, not quite 9 playing tricks. I came across Namyats last week. Don't know if that's worthwhile enough to justify giving up the 4 level prempt in a minor. My agreement with my partner is that we require 9 playing tricks and 4 defensive tricks for a 2♣ opening, so we would open 1♠ here, thinking it's a bit strong for a preempt. Some good (by our local club standard) players open 2♣regularly with 8 playing tricks, a very good 6-7 card suit and 16 HCP+ , despite the fact that my references, including several posters on this board, advise against it. I wonder if it's because opps at our club level rarely compete after a 2♣ opening so they don't get pushed too high.

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Unless you play Benjamin, NAMYATS (South African Texas), or 3N=Good 4M, I rank
1♠ = Normal action. Choice of Eagles123 and Baby Bear.
4♠ = Non-consultative.
2♣ = Nondescriptive overbid

[Cyberyeti]

 1eyedjack, on 2016-June-12, 09:04, said:

3S wtp?

That would be a bit less than this playing Acol, your slam potential is good opposite some hands that will just bid 4♠

[Cyberyeti]

 Liversidge, on 2016-June-12, 09:11, said:

Swop the ♠J for the ♠Q and I have 9 playing tricks but only 15 HCP. I feel a bit stupid asking this as I know it would be a bad bid, but not why, so that I can explain to partner why it's not a good idea.

8.5 not 9

If you have a solid 9, I can live with 2♣.

[gordontd]

 Cyberyeti, on 2016-June-12, 09:32, said:

That would be a bit less than this playing Acol, your slam potential is good opposite some hands that will just bid 4♠

Since it's unlimited and forcing in modern Acol, your partner should cue-bid with a suitable hand.

[Cyberyeti]

 gordontd, on 2016-June-12, 09:37, said:

Since it's unlimited and forcing in modern Acol, your partner should cue-bid with a suitable hand.

Does he really think Qx, Axx, KJxx, 109xx is that suitable ?

We get round this issue by expanding 2N (which is GF anyway) to not always be balanced so we can distinguish between 3♠ bids.

[eagles123]

 Cyberyeti, on 2016-June-12, 09:39, said:

Does he really think Qx, Axx, KJxx, 109xx is that suitable ?

We get round this issue by expanding 2N (which is GF anyway) to not always be balanced so we can distinguish between 3♠ bids.

That really is a perfecto. also I'm not sure how your pet method is helpful to the op in this situation, especially with it being N/B

[gordontd]

 Cyberyeti, on 2016-June-12, 09:39, said:

Does he really think Qx, Axx, KJxx, 109xx is that suitable ?

We get round this issue by expanding 2N (which is GF anyway) to not always be balanced so we can distinguish between 3♠ bids.

Responder cue-bidding after a 3S rebid does seem to provide the most plausible route to the top spot. I'm not sure how your solution helps.

[wank]

 Liversidge, on 2016-June-12, 09:11, said:

Swop the ♠J for the ♠Q and I have 9 playing tricks but only 15 HCP. I feel a bit stupid asking this as I know it would be a bad bid, but not why, so that I can explain to partner why it's not a good idea.

opening 2 clubs shows more than what's required to make game. it shows a lot of defence, essentially plenty of points outside your long suit.

as for 4 spades, that's a pre-empt. it should be a hand lacking the defence for a 1 opener (different kettle of fish in 3rd/4th).

as others have said, it's basically a 1S 3S rebid hand.

[eagles123]

agree with wank but I think a more general point is that weak players will open 2c way too often, quite often on hands which are completely unsuitable such as the one in the OP. I mean this with respect Liversidge but just because these players are strong within your local club, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are good players - if they often open these kinds of hands 2c I'd wager that they almost certainly aren't as strong as you think.

[rmnka447]

This hand is definitely a 1 ♠ opener. As eagles123 says, too much defense for a preempt, not enough tricks for 2 ♣. Make the hand ♠ AKJ109xx ♥ Ax ♦ AQx ♣ x, worth 1 track more, so 2 ♣ would be then be appropriate.

So assuming you open 1 ♠, the main issue is "what do you rebid?"

If partner makes a 1 NT response, or a simple raise, I'd probably just bid 4 ♠.

But if partner makes a forcing bid such as a 2/1 response, forcing raise, or splinter, slam could be a possibility. So you need to keep the bidding open and, if possible, show partner some slam interest when you can. Logically, you'll rebid 3 ♠ over a 2/1 as the playing strength dictates more than a minimum rebid. Over a Jacoby 2 NT forcing raise, show your singleton with 3 ♣, then hope to cue ♦ next.

[StevenG]

Assuming EBU, is it even legal to open this hand 2♣? Is doesn't seem to conform to ER25. Banning it as a Benji 2♣ seems crazy,

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

playing strong twos, I would have no problems with opening 2S,
so playing Benji, it is on the lower end, but so what.

Since you are playing 3 weak twos, all strong openings go via 2C,
and you need to have lower limit, what to include, otherwise you
will have trouble makeing decison, if you should go beyond the 4
level or not.

In short: With your system, I would open 1S.

Regarding Namyats: I would miss my 4 level minor preempts.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cyberyeti]

 gordontd, on 2016-June-12, 09:45, said:

Responder cue-bidding after a 3S rebid does seem to provide the most plausible route to the top spot. I'm not sure how your solution helps.

Because I don't think it's a cue after 3♠, I think it is after 2N-3♦(precisely 4-4 minors)-3♠ which is how we would bid it.

And since 2N is GF anyway in modern Acol, it actually requires very little work to use it for unbalanced hands as well, just that N/B don't think to agree to do it.

[steve2005]

 Liversidge, on 2016-June-12, 09:11, said:

Swop the ♠J for the ♠Q and I have 9 playing tricks but only 15 HCP. I feel a bit stupid asking this as I know it would be a bad bid, but not why, so that I can explain to partner why it's not a good idea.

You don't really have any defense so if the bidding gets high quickly you wont be able to sit for a penalty double. On defense your spades may all be ruffed.
Secondly, again if there is interference it may be impossible to show your spade length.