[mgoetze]

You play 2♣ as 100% GF (except 2NT rebid), no double negatives. You also play Gazilli, so if partner responds 1NT you will be able to GF and describe your 5-4 shape. You deal yourself

♠AKxxx ♥A ♦QJx ♣AKQx.

Do you...

...open 1♠ because if partner can't respond you probably won't make game anyway and opps might well give you another bite at the cherry by overcalling 2♥;

...open 2♣ planning to rebid 2NT (22-24) or

...open 2♣ planning to rebid 2♠ (GF)?

If you open 1♠, would any number of tens in your hand convince you otherwise?

[kuhchung]

23 is a lot.

[nige1]

mgoetze, on 2015-December-31, 07:54, said:

You play 2♣ as 100% GF (except 2NT rebid), no double negatives. You also play Gazilli, so if partner responds 1NT you will be able to GF and describe your 5-4 shape.
You deal yourself ♠ A K x x x ♥ A ♦ Q J x ♣ A K Q x.
Do you...

• ...open 1♠ because if partner can't respond you probably won't make game anyway and opps might well give you another bite at the cherry by overcalling 2♥;
• ...open 2♣ planning to rebid 2NT (22-24)
• ...open 2♣ planning to rebid 2♠ (GF)?

If you open 1♠, would any number of tens in your hand convince you otherwise?

IMO, open 2♣ planning to rebid 2♠. I rank 2♣ above 1♠ because

• Game has chances opposite balanced Yarboroughs e.g. ♠ x x x ♥ x x x x ♦ x x ♣ x x x x and
• Slam is a good prospect opposite opposite suitable 3-counts e.g. ♠ ♥ x x x ♦ K x x x x x ♣ x x x x

[wanoff]

2♣-2R-2♠......next

[neilkaz]

kuhchung, on 2015-December-31, 12:34, said:

23 is a lot.

Agreed so 2♣ for me. I also will rebid 2♠ with this distributional hand.

[PhantomSac]

kuhchung, on 2015-December-31, 12:34, said:

23 is a lot.

Haha, yeah definitely this. My thought process would be "2C, cuz I have 23" followed by "2S because I have 5+ spades and my hand is unbalanced"

I don't see a reason to distort this hand by either opening 1S with 23 or showing a balanced hand with 5134 by rebidding 2N

[jogs]

mgoetze, on 2015-December-31, 07:54, said:

...open 2♣ planning to rebid 2♠ (GF)?

Why is this gf? My partners also hold nothing when I have a good hand.

[jallerton]

PhantomSac, on 2015-December-31, 17:04, said:

Haha, yeah definitely this. My thought process would be "2C, cuz I have 23" followed by "2S because I have 5+ spades and my hand is unbalanced"

I prefer Nigel's reasoning: think of some very poor hands opposite that give play for game (or slam) and deduce that your hand is worth a game force.

Quote

I don't see a reason to distort this hand by either opening 1S with 23 or showing a balanced hand with 5134 by rebidding 2N

Nor do I. The order of the suits is such that we will often be able to show our suits economically. 2♣-2♦-2♠-2NT-3♣ gets the hand across well and still leaves room for partner to introduce a red suit at the 3-level.

However, swap the pointed suits around to make the hand QJx A AKxxx AKQx and now the hand is much more awkward to bid after a 2♣ opener. I've seen Eric Kokish advocate opening 1♦ on hands like this.

[jallerton]

mgoetze, on 2015-December-31, 07:54, said:

...open 2♣ planning to rebid 2♠ (GF)?

jogs, on 2015-December-31, 17:11, said:

Why is this gf? My partners also hold nothing when I have a good hand.

Because the opening poster tells us that:

mgoetze, on 2015-December-31, 07:54, said:

You play 2♣ as 100% GF (except 2NT rebid), no double negatives.

[PhantomSac]

jallerton, on 2015-December-31, 17:52, said:

However, swap the pointed suits around to make the hand QJx A AKxxx AKQx and now the hand is much more awkward to bid after a 2♣ opener. I've seen Eric Kokish advocate opening 1♦ on hands like this.

Sure, having a rebid problem is a good reason (and arguably the only reason) to misdescribe your hand early in the auction, sometimes there is no way to show your hand (4441 very strong hands being the obvious example), and sometimes describing your strength or shape wrong is a better way to get to the best spot/get all your suits in w/e.

Quote

I prefer Nigel's reasoning: think of some very poor hands opposite that give play for game (or slam) and deduce that your hand is worth a game force.

It is just a mentality thing and they all lead to the same conclusions but a problem I see many non experts having, especially those who read a lot/have a lot of knowledge, is that they get too fancy early in the auction. There are times to open 1N with a stiff (I think opening 1N with K AQJx QJxx QJxxx would be a majority action), there are maybe times to not open 2C with 23 HCP, etc, but people should have a very concrete reason for doing so, there is a reason that with 22+ it is recommended to open 2C, and with stiffs to not show balanced hands. Those are normal because on a vast majority of the hands it is the percentage thing to do.

On this hand I just see no reason to consider distorting my hand, showing 22+ then showing 5+ spades is a perfectly fine description and comes with no rebid problems. Is it possible that over 2C 2D 2S my partner will bid 3H and I will bid 3N and my partner will pass and we can make 6C? Absolutely, but that is not enough of a reason to go against well established normal bids. More likely is we miss a game or a slam when I open 1S because I am too strong to open 1S.

Obviously this does not apply to you personally but I think a good habit to get into for people who want to get better is to make normal bids early in the auction unless they have a very concrete reason to deviate.

[rmnka447]

It's a solid 3 loser hand, so I'm opening 2 ♣. By opening 2 ♣ and rebidding 2 ♠, partner will know that I hold at least a hand with no more than 4 losers.

With good ♠, I see no reason not to rebid 2 ♠ rather than 2 NT. If the hand were ♠ AKxx ♥ A ♦ QJxx ♣ AKQx, then I'd be more amenable to opening 2 NT. In that case, you don't really have a ♠ suit you want to emphasize and have mechanisms (via various Stayman auctions) to find good suit fits.

[Cyberyeti]

Easy 2♣. One thought, what jump shifts do you play ? how are you going to bid over 1♠-3♥(weak) with no clue where you belong, 6♥, 4♥, 4♠ and 3N are all in the frame and you have no way of finding out the right spot.

[mikestar13]

Obvious 2♣, intending a 2♠ rebid. A player who struggles with whether to open 2♣ with these cards is trying to remember whether his partnership is playing 2 over 1 or Precision. If the former, 2♣ is textbook.

[mgoetze]

Cyberyeti, on 2015-December-31, 21:01, said:

Easy 2♣. One thought, what jump shifts do you play ? how are you going to bid over 1♠-3♥(weak) with no clue where you belong,

Natural and invitational, so if partner responds 3♥ I think 6NT would be a good bet.

[Cyberyeti]

mgoetze, on 2016-January-01, 01:58, said:

Natural and invitational, so if partner responds 3♥ I think 6NT would be a good bet.

Fair enough (I play them strong), but the WJS is a consideration if you happen to play it. If I held the same suits but 13(45) rather than 5134 I'd be much more amenable to opening 1m, but would still probably open 2♣.

6N could be a bit embarrassing opposite xx, KQJ10xx, A10 (not Ax), xxx on a diamond lead unless you can engineer partner to play it.

Edited: what I thought and what I typed were different as Justin has pointed out below

[PhantomSac]

Cyberyeti, on 2016-January-01, 05:06, said:

6N could be a bit embarrassing opposite xx, KQJ10xx, Ax, xxx on a diamond lead unless you can engineer partner to play it.

Yeah cuz its sweet if partner plays it