[diana_eva]

JEC match, strong opps and pd, IMPs

Meaning of 1NT - 4S undiscussed

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Is there a standard meaning for this sequence? I was rather confused, not sure whether partner just wants to compete or this shows something special.

Would you bid on?

[ggwhiz]

No standard for this bid that I know of.

I would pass expecting something like the heart king and diamond length/cards that made a 3-card limit raise grow up.

Partner had a 3♥ cue available for any weird shapely thing that can make slam but to pull this auction with an unlimited 1nt bid and no prior agreement wouldn't occur to me.

[SteveMoe]

If 1NT is forcing, then I play 4♠ directly denies a defensive card outside while 1NT first promises a defensive card. The second possibility is the ♦ rebid created a double fit with responder holding prime cards in the pointed suits. Something like ♠Ax ♥xx ♦AQxxxx ♣xxx.

[mike777]

I would pass expecting something close to:

Axx..Kxxx...QJxx..xx

[kuhchung]

I think it's just a 3 card limit raise that upgraded when you bid diamonds. I'd pass now, you need way too much for slam

[PhantomSac]

6D is not that far off when partner has a 3 card LR + a diamond fit but I wouldn't go for it.

[gszes]

If 2/1 (ie 1n was forcing) I would echo the slightly upgraded 3 card limit raise and subside
If sayc (ie 1n was non forcing) I would assume a 5+ card dia fit Honor x in spades a side singleton and not much else. 4s giving us a chance to play there if you had 6 semi cruddy spades. I would try 4n (rkc spades) and if p can produce 2 slam should have a great shot

[diana_eva]

Sry, thought I had mentioned in the OP - we were playing 2/1.

Anyway not a big deal but I kinda fielded that this was something strongish and didn't dare to move. Partner had a 12 po flat/control-less with 5-carder fit, probably judged it too weak for J2NT so we missed slam.

Edit - the full deal (maybe it wasnt such a great slam, but other table bid it):

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This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2015-December-30, 12:35
Reason for edit: added the hand

[Cyberyeti]

I think this is a judgment problem by your partner, the 5th spade is huge so this is an easy J2N, but I'm still not sure I bid the slam.

[kenberg]

An interesting hand. If there is any one thing that I expected of partner's hand it is that it had exactly three card spade support. Beynd that, I would expect minimal values. Either minimal values but enough to be convinced at the outset that 4S is a decent bet, or minimal values and a hand that liked the 2D bid. No way, and really no need, to know which.

N might have tried 2NT, I trust it is a gf with 4+ support. It's an interesting question as to whether you should then bid 3H (at most one heart) or bid 4D (a strong second suit). It seems to me that you make 6 if the spade King is onside and go down if it isn't. Hardly good enough odds to fret about. missing.

But if we are to second guess the bidding, I really don't see what's wrong with partner starting with 2NT. If by any chance that is not Jacoby, or has not been discussed, then maybe an ugly 2C. I suppose 1S-2C-2D-2S-4H is just barely a possible auction. And maybe it gets you to 6.

I take your post as not really an assess the blame post but rather just a discussion. In this case I think missing slam is no big deal, but if I ask myself how we might end in 6, making or not, I think 1S-2NT-4D is the most likely route.

[mike777]

diana_eva, on 2015-December-30, 12:28, said:

Sry, thought I had mentioned in the OP - we were playing 2/1.

Anyway not a big deal but I kinda fielded that this was something strongish and didn't dare to move. Partner had a 12 po flat/control-less with 5-carder fit, probably judged it too weak for J2NT so we missed slam.

Edit - the full deal (maybe it wasnt such a great slam, but other table bid it):

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I don't understand 1nt?

looks like a normal 2nt forcing raise.

Difficult to stop short of slam after 2nt raise. South has a good hand.

[PhantomSac]

mike777, on 2015-December-30, 13:35, said:

I don't understand 1nt?

looks like a normal 2nt forcing raise.

Difficult to stop short of slam after 2nt raise. South has a good hand.

Yes very difficult to stop short of slam opposite 2 keycards.

[PhantomSac]

Cyberyeti, on 2015-December-30, 13:03, said:

I think this is a judgment problem by your partner, the 5th spade is huge so this is an easy J2N, but I'm still not sure I bid the slam.

Do you not play keycard?

[PhantomSac]

kenberg, on 2015-December-30, 13:07, said:

I suppose 1S-2C-2D-2S-4H is just barely a possible auction. And maybe it gets you to 6.

Another person who does not play keycard?

JFC.

[Cyberyeti]

PhantomSac, on 2015-December-30, 14:41, said:

Do you not play keycard?

I do and if it's used, clearly I don't bid the slam, but I don't play the rest of the system used here, and if you get into a cuebidding auction rather than Blackwood, it's possible you stumble into it.

[rmnka447]

You have a nice hand, but like others I'd expect 3 card support. So, I don't see any way to move beyond 4 ♠.

A lot of things come together for 6 to make on this hand -- no ♠ loser, ♦ run, etc. If the opponents bid it, they were lucky this time. Next time the rub of the green might well be different in your side's favor.

[kenberg]

So now I am down to 1S=2NT-4D-4H-4NT-5 of whatever shows 1 keycard-5S done

N, looking at his QJ of diamonds, likes the 4D and shows his pleasuer with 4H. Maybe this is first/second round control, maybe this is Last Train, whatever it is it is encouraging. At this point it seems right to haul out RKC. Then you stop in 5S making 6.

I don't know if this is everyone's choice, but it seems reasonable enough.

[rmnka447]

kenberg, on 2015-December-30, 18:03, said:

So now I am down to 1S=2NT-4D-4H-4NT-5 of whatever shows 1 keycard-5S done

N, looking at his QJ of diamonds, likes the 4D and shows his pleasure with 4H. Maybe this is first/second round control, maybe this is Last Train, whatever it is it is encouraging. At this point it seems right to haul out RKC. Then you stop in 5S making 6.

I don't know if this is everyone's choice, but it seems reasonable enough.

That's what I was thinking the bidding might be if you used J2N. There's no way to know whether that KC is ♥ A (= 2 probable ♠ losers), ♠ K (missing 2 As), or ♠ A (requiring favorable lie of ♠ K or good guess to drop stiff K behind the A).

If you take the other possible route after J2N -- bidding 3 ♥ showing shortness, responder will probably just bid 4 ♠ and your done.