[hautbois]

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[BillHiggin]

Such absolutely required information as some indication of methods is needed!
IF N/S are playing something close to normal 2/1, then South is guilty. South's first rebid should be 3♥ setting trumps. Failure to do so implies that something more than a void is needed.

[hautbois]

BillHiggin, on 2013-September-17, 18:29, said:

Such absolutely required information as some indication of methods is needed!

2♣ was game forcing.

[aguahombre]

BillHiggin, on 2013-September-17, 18:29, said:

Such absolutely required information as some indication of methods is needed!
IF N/S are playing something close to normal 2/1, then South is guilty. South's first rebid should be 3♥ setting trumps. Failure to do so implies that something more than a void is needed.

Yep. But it still would require some good agreements to determine the 7th Heart and the Diamond King.

Another possibility would be a disciplined NAMYATS 4H opening to show the self-sustaining suit and precisely 7-7 1/2 tricks, with a way to find out about the half. But only one pair represented on these fora wants to be that disciplined with their 4M openings ---and the rest are probably right not to be so stubbornly old-fashioned.

This is obviously a hand where we just want to count tricks on the auctions; the Spade Jack is pretty much a red herring. First, we have to be able to get to South's hand quickly for the drawing of trumps and the finesse if a Defensive trick is established by the opening lead. 2-7-2-2 without a side king would require the Spade queen to drop second without a trump promotion, or third.

[kenberg]

I certainly think that it should begion 1♥-2♣3♥. After that, it's a matter of judgment. Optimists will get there, pessimists won't I'm inclined to think most would after 3♥, but then it's easier to say that looking at both hands.

My understanding of 2/1 is that the 3♥ not only sets hearts as trumps but announces that we won't be losing tricks in that suit.

[aguahombre]

kenberg, on 2013-September-17, 19:30, said:

My understanding of 2/1 is that the 3♥ not only sets hearts as trumps but announces that we won't be losing tricks in that suit.

Yeh, but there is not universal agreement about whether the hand as a whole has extra strength, or about the length of the trump suit. Other tools are needed after the 3H jump to get to a trick count.

In fact, for us it would deny the given hand and others: 8 solid and out, 7 solid and a bullet, or a 9-trick hand. None of those would open 1H.

[Cyberyeti]

To my mind S has bid the hand quite strongly by not jumping to 4♥ at any point, so N could simply bid 5♥ on the end of the auction, and S with those trumps bids 6, but as people have said, jumping to 3♥ is fairly normal.

Interesting question whether you want to be in 7, given how often people lead trumps I quite fancy it, but not so good on a spade lead.

[the hog]

This is a huge hand and I would want to be in 7 definitely. There are squeeze possibilities as well as an excellent chance of setting up the Cs. This sort of bidding gives 2/1 a bad name. For Heaven's sake, bud 3H like a man and not 2 like a wuss!

[PhilG007]

hautbois, on 2013-September-17, 18:08, said:

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North should bid 1♠ the short suit first which is also forcing then rebid the clubs,if need be,to show a black 2 suiter
Can't understand South's 'creeping' with the ♥ suit. After 1 ♠ by North, South should simply bid
4♥ Now North,suspecting a slam,can use RCKB to agree hearts and ask for key cards On learning that S has 2+ the Q he can then
ask for kings. When South admits to 1 outside King,North hesitates no longer and bids 7♥

[mr1303]

3H shows either a solid or a 1 loser suit, so 3H is clear.

I'm not sure if I get to 7H on these cards, since AKQxxxx would constitute a no-loser suit and trumps don't always break 3-3, but 6H should be easy to bid.

I blame South

[Cyberyeti]

PhilG007, on 2013-September-18, 01:58, said:

North should bid 1♠ the short suit first which is also forcing then rebid the clubs,if need be,to show a black 2 suiter
Can't understand South's 'creeping' with the ♥ suit. After 1 ♠ by North, South should simply bid
4♥ Now North,suspecting a slam,can use RCKB to agree hearts and ask for key cards On learning that S has 2+ the Q he can then
ask for kings. When South admits to 1 outside King,North hesitates no longer and bids 7♥

No way, for a couple of reasons:

1. You will be in a lot of marginal grands where the heart suit is not quite good enough (AKQ 7th or AK 9th).
2. How are you going to get to the club grand opposite say void, AKxxxxxx, xx, KQJ starting with 1♠

[Fluffy]

1♥ I have some hearts and points
2♣ I also have a good hand, I have clubs
3♥ we are going to play in hearts, hopefully in slam
3NT I think you are wrong...
4♦ no way, we play hearts, I have diamond control (note that 4♣ would be a natural strain suggestion so cannot be bid)
4♠ I have spade control
4NT how many keycards?
5♦ 3 of them
5♠/NT we have all keycards anything else?
6x I have 1 King/♠K
7♥ let's play this.


An alternative is that after King ask south has room to make a last train bid, and north rejects, no blame.

[the hog]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-September-18, 03:29, said:

No way, for a couple of reasons:

1. You will be in a lot of marginal grands where the heart suit is not quite good enough (AKQ 7th or AK 9th).
2. How are you going to get to the club grand opposite say void, AKxxxxxx, xx, KQJ starting with 1♠

I disagree if you have the methods to show 4S and longer clubs. This is not to say that I agree with that post as this is in the Inter/Adv forum, but playing Mafia responses you could quite easily get to the slam on your posted hand.

[hautbois]

I was north. Partner was apologetic in the post mortem stating he should have bid 3♥, but I was concerned my hand is strong enough to keep looking for slam even without a 3♥ response.

I expected partner's suit to have a hole for not jumping to 3, otherwise I can expect 11 tricks with partner needing a K or the spades working to make 12. I might not have placed the contract in 7, but at least 6.