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and here's another playing 2/1

#1 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2008-June-21, 10:31


Dealer: North
Vul: All
Scoring: IMP
♠ AQJ
♥ J653
♦ Q86
♣ 753


West North East South

 -     1♠    Pass  ?
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
"You need to play a lot of stuff these days just to deal with the stuff your opponents are playing" DBurn
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#2 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2008-June-21, 10:34

2S constructive raise, perfect!
- Andy -

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We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
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#3 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-June-21, 14:40

2S is easy with this, not close to a 3 card limit.
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#4 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2008-June-21, 16:06

jillybean2, on Jun 21 2008, 11:31 AM, said:

Dealer: North
Vul: All
Scoring: IMP
♠ AQJ
♥ J653
♦ Q86
♣ 753
West  North East  South
-    1♠    Pass  ?

IMO
1N seems OK but
2♠ may be better if you employ 5 card majors.
2♣ or even 2♦ may be better if you use a weak notrump.
Guthrie.tech
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#5 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-June-21, 16:06

Agree with easy 2S, I don't play this as particularly constructive (though better than the 5-count in the other thread).
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#6 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2008-June-21, 19:16

2♠ as this 4333 10 HCP hand is not a 3 card limit raise for me.
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#7 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-June-21, 19:44

2♠
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#8 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2008-June-21, 21:51

kenrexford, on Jun 21 2008, 06:44 PM, said:

2♠

Ken, is that you? :)
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
"You need to play a lot of stuff these days just to deal with the stuff your opponents are playing" DBurn
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#9 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-June-21, 21:56

2♠. No second choice.
"Phil" on BBO
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#10 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-June-21, 22:14

I'll go so far as to say calling this a limit raise is very very bad.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#11 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-June-22, 06:27

jillybean2, on Jun 21 2008, 10:51 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Jun 21 2008, 06:44 PM, said:

2♠

Ken, is that you? :rolleyes:

Well, yeah. But I play 2♠ here as showing a good fragment in diamonds. 2♥ would have shown a good fragment in clubs. Kind of mini-flags. I'll show the spade support later. :)
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#12 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-June-22, 07:24

LOL
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#13 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2008-June-22, 11:12

Sorry, Jillybean, I didn't realise that the context was 2/1, about which I know little.
But I too would like to learn. In standard 2/1, what is the difference between.
1♠ - 2♠ and
1♠ - 1N ; 2♣ - 2♠
I suppose the former promises 3+ card support? but is it also stronger?
Guthrie.tech
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#14 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-June-22, 11:30

The former promises 3-card support. The latter tends to deny 3-card support but one often bids this way with 3-card support and not enough for an honest response.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#15 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-June-22, 11:44

han, on Jun 22 2008, 12:30 PM, said:

The former promises 3-card support. The latter tends to deny 3-card support but one often bids this way with 3-card support and not enough for an honest response.

Yes.

The classic 2/1 GF simple raise is either "constructive" or "semi-constructive," whatever these terms mean. Thus, with a bare minimum simple raise, you bid 1NT...2M.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#16 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2008-June-23, 05:06

nige1, on Jun 22 2008, 12:12 PM, said:

In standard 2/1, what is the difference between.
1♠ - 2♠ and
1♠ - 1N ; 2♣ - 2♠

A very common treatment is that an immediate 2♠ is 3 card support with about 7-10 in terms of high card points, whereas via the forcing NT shows 6-10 points and 2 card support ... OR ... 3 card support and fewer than 7 points.

The latter means that over 1♠ 2♠ opener can make a trial bid, but you still get in the raise to 2 with the weaker hand, knowing partner is not going to get too excited.
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#17 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-June-23, 05:12

With a decent 6-count like Q10x Axxx xx xxxx I would just bid 2S directly. I would only bid 1NT followed 2S with a hand that would likely be a real disappointment for partner after an auction like 1S-2S-4S. With xxx Qxxx Qxx Qxx I would definitely bid 1NT first.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#18 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-June-23, 05:24

han, on Jun 23 2008, 06:12 AM, said:

With a decent 6-count like Q10x Axxx xx xxxx I would just bid 2S directly. I would only bid 1NT followed 2S with a hand that would likely be a real disappointment for partner after an auction like 1S-2S-4S. With xxx Qxxx Qxx Qxx I would definitely bid 1NT first.

Wild difference between these two.

I'd clarify that the Q10x-Axxx-xx-xxxx is probably dead minimum. The Ace and the doubleton are critical.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#19 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2008-June-23, 06:05

kenrexford, on Jun 23 2008, 06:24 AM, said:

I'd clarify that the Q10x-Axxx-xx-xxxx is probably dead minimum.  The Ace and the doubleton are critical.

Absolutely. While I say 2♠ is typically 7-10 and 3 card support, this 6 count is as good as most 7s. Rules are for guidance : judgement is everything.
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#20 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2008-June-23, 09:10

This is a maximum everyday 2♠ call.

If you play constructive raises, this hand is a classic constructive raise.
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