[PedroG]

Hi All,

Today watching some games from PAU, Italy vs Greece...

And Greece splintered with a stiff A... O/Room Board 9 this has the hand and the bidding...

Scoring: IMP

And this was the auction:
(P)-1♦-(P)-1♥
(P)-4♣-(X)-4♥
AllPass

---

in Board 8 in the C/Room their team mates had splintered with a stiff K...

I was with the impression that this wasn't a very good ideia to splinter with a stiff Ace...

Any toughts?

[Echognome]

There have been a few discussions surrounding this notion. The problem with splintering with a stiff A or K is that partner will either misjudge the value of his honors in that suit (e.g. QJxx or KJxx) if it's not part of your style or not be able to judge his holdings that easily if that is part of your style (should he cater to A or K possibility with those holdings?).

I personally try to avoid splintering with A or K, but sometimes you just don't have another good bid and sometimes you will splinter knowing partner may misjudge, but taking a chance partner has values outside the splintered suit and that it will work out. So it's understandable on, say, the given hand. After 1♦ - 1♥, what rebid is opener supposed to make? 4♥? It's not very informative either, so the 4♣ seems reasonable to me.

[helene_t]

With some partners I have agreed to play splinters in all kind of situations without having agreed on a generic forcing raise in the same situations. This hand for example. I could have rebid 2NT if that is forcing but it shows 18-19 and we forgot to discuss how I can show more than 19 points after having rebid 2NT. But maybe the hand is too strong for a splinter as well.

[PedroG]

I understand that he has to create a forcing auction, and 1♠ isn't

Well on the other table opener resolved is problem opening 2NT that has flaws too

I seem to recall a old post about bidding out strong 3 suiters... must make a search.

Pedro

[rogerclee]

My thoughts on the issue are to splinter in these situations, because the alternatives are much worse. If you JS to 2♠, partner will play you for showing 3 hearts, until you insist on 4♥, then he will play you for 4450. If you bid 4♥, partner will never move for slam unless he has a very good hand, because he will assume you are balanced. I think splintering with aces is underrated, especially on a hand like this, where partner doesn't have a good pitch from dummy anyway with his hypothetically mis-evaluated ♣K. I also have enough stuff outside clubs anyway for this to not mislead partner about my outside holdings.

Anyway the actual hand in the OP is an extremely poor slam (and ~0% on a trump lead).

[PedroG]

HI all and thank you...

I was just thinking they were lucky on the layout, if you switch the heart and clubs, finding partner with...

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The answer to 1♦ is probably the same 1♥ and now the splinter may not permit a 3NT contract that make and move toward a 4H that has not a sinlge chance...

Maybe with that weak H we would not bid them... but this I think that everyone will bid 1♥...

---

Pedro

[cherdano]

It is impossible to get to 3N in standard methods when opener has a game-forcing raise of responder's major. I don't generally like splinters with singleton honors, but with this East hand it looks to work well. You won't be able to use the club discards opposite ♣KQxx anyway.

For me, the only alternative to East's sequence is to open 2N.

[han]

LOL @ missing 3NT.

I think rogerclee said it well, splintering with a stiff ace isn't perfect but you have to compare it to the alternatives.

[Echognome]

han, on Jun 20 2008, 06:51 AM, said:

LOL @ missing 3NT.

I think rogerclee said it well, splintering with a stiff ace isn't perfect but you have to compare it to the alternatives.

Quote

I personally try to avoid splintering with A or K, but sometimes you just don't have another good bid...

Have to quote myself... yuck!

[ASkolnick]

I think splintering with a K is much worse. As stated before, secondary honors become valuable holdings. A stiff A is a little different because it could almost be treated as a void (same amount of losers). If you don't have cover cards in the outside, a slam would be just as bad.

[Cascade]

We play that on many hands we have a choice of showing a balanced raise or showing a splinter raise. For a long time we played that with a singleton ace or king we showed a balanced raise given the conventional wisdom that splintering with those holdings was bad. We found that there were more hands where the singleton was more important than the honour. So we changed to showing the singleton.

Yes it is not ideal but that is just the way it is.

After we show a singleton we can sometimes subsequently show the ace. We often have no ambiguity since we can often show a void by some other means. In even more complex auctions we can occasionally show the stiff king as an "extra". Even if we can't we can at least evaluate that we have a little extra with a stiff king.

[han]

Echognome, on Jun 20 2008, 10:26 AM, said:

han, on Jun 20 2008, 06:51 AM, said:

LOL @ missing 3NT.

I think rogerclee said it well, splintering with a stiff ace isn't perfect but you have to compare it to the alternatives.

Quote

I personally try to avoid splintering with A or K, but sometimes you just don't have another good bid...

Have to quote myself... yuck!

You found a subject where we agree Matt, worth quoting!

[PedroG]

han, on Jun 20 2008, 09:51 AM, said:

LOL @ missing 3NT.

I think rogerclee said it well, splintering with a stiff ace isn't perfect but you have to compare it to the alternatives.

I think the alternative is opening 2NT... Like someone told in the thread...

Pedro

[SoTired]

splintering on stiff A/K

I think the main problem is that normally it screws up the "splinter math". That is, partner's ability to judge 3-suits of 26HCP = slam.

I think it is acceptable if the splinterer has extra strength so that the math works right. My judgement is If the stiff-A/K was a small card, would you still splinter? If so, I think it is OK with the stiff-A/K.