[mw64ahw]

My esoteric unbalanced ♦
1♦ - 1♠ game invitational
1N 543s (not 444s) - 2♦ <4-card suit?> GF
2N (3s)54 - 3♣ set trumps
3♠ 1354 - 4♥ odd KCs, ♥ control
5♦ all KCs, no Q♣, K♦ - 6♣
It's possible to also show the 2 red queens & J♣ which may lead to 6N

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2026-October-23, 14:50, said:

Partner bids 4♦.
I hope you've accepted to bid 4♥ by now
If so he bids 4♠.

Well, we may or may not end sunny side up.
I sent the question to my partner for the tournament this weekend.
1D 1H 2C 2S* 3H 4C - does 4C set trump and indicate slam interest?

The response;
It ostensibly is asking for key cards in C's but the H K is included.
The 1st bidders hand is so well defined. 4S would be KC for hearts only, definitely slammish.

Seeking further clarification and asking what else I should know before tomorrow

[mike777]

Ugg way too complicated for me....good luck.

[DavidKok]

jillybean, on 2026-October-23, 17:04, said:

Well, we may or may not end sunny side up.
I sent the question to my partner for the tournament this weekend.
1D 1H 2C 2S* 3H 4C - does 4C set trump and indicate slam interest?

The response;
It ostensibly is asking for key cards in C's but the H K is included.
The 1st bidders hand is so well defined. 4S would be KC for hearts only, definitely slammish.

Seeking further clarification and asking what else I should know before tomorrow

Best of luck, hopefully it will never come up, ever.

[DavidKok]

pescetom, on 2026-October-23, 15:07, said:

Curious to know how the auction would have gone in your preferred pair.

The same. This West hand is too strong for 1♦-1♥; 2♥. So instead we bid:

1♦-1♥;
2♣-2♠; (4SGF)
3♥-4♣; ([1=3=5=4 or 0=3=6=4] and extra values. 4♣ sets clubs and shows SI)
4♦-4♥; (controls)
4NT-5♦; (West knows about the source of diamond tricks, control in all suits, and only needs to know key cards)
5♥-6♥; (Asking for the ♣Q, 6♥ shows ♣Q, ♥K, denies ♦K or ♠K)
7♣-P; (I think even at MP 7♣ is better than 7NT. The field can't find these grands so this is probably 90%+ anyway, and we only know of 11 tricks from top (♠A, ♥AKQ, ♦AKQ, ♣AKQJ). In clubs we can score spade ruffs in the hand to get to 13)

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2026-October-24, 02:32, said:

The same. This West hand is too strong for 1♦-1♥; 2♥. So instead we bid:

1♦-1♥;
2♣-2♠; (4SGF)
3♥-4♣; ([1=3=5=4 or 0=3=6=4] and extra values. 4♣ sets clubs and shows SI)
4♦-4♥; (controls)
4NT-5♦; (West knows about the source of diamond tricks, control in all suits, and only needs to know key cards)
5♥-6♥; (Asking for the ♣Q, 6♥ shows ♣Q, ♥K, denies ♦K or ♠K)
7♣-P; (I think even at MP 7♣ is better than 7NT. The field can't find these grands so this is probably 90%+ anyway, and we only know of 11 tricks from top (♠A, ♥AKQ, ♦AKQ, ♣AKQJ). In clubs we can score spade ruffs in the hand to get to 13)

Same to 4♣ but is complicated by the fact that 4♦ over 4♣ would be kickback for us, and I can't be certain where we'd end up.

At MPs how good a contract is 6♥ ? if you assume not many are bidding 7♣

[P_Marlowe]

pescetom, on 2026-October-23, 15:07, said:

It gets agreement dependent after 4♣, some would have followed a different path even before.
Here are both hands.

---

Curious to know how the auction would have gone in your preferred pair.

The way the auction started, after 4C which would set trumps and show SI, opener would bid 4D as
a cue, Opener has only 2KC, missing the Q of trumps, due to this he wont bid 4NT, our only KC ask.
Responder with 3KCs and the Q of trump does not have this issue, he bids it, he learns about 2KCs
and the King of diamonds and the 5431 distribution, ..., he should be able to count to 13 somehow.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: There are days we may give up and end up in 6C, given that I am sometimes too lazy and tend to cut
auctions short.

[mikeh]

DavidKok, on 2026-October-24, 02:32, said:

The same. This West hand is too strong for 1♦-1♥; 2♥. So instead we bid:

1♦-1♥;
2♣-2♠; (4SGF)
3♥-4♣; ([1=3=5=4 or 0=3=6=4] and extra values. 4♣ sets clubs and shows SI)
4♦-4♥; (controls)
4NT-5♦; (West knows about the source of diamond tricks, control in all suits, and only needs to know key cards)
5♥-6♥; (Asking for the ♣Q, 6♥ shows ♣Q, ♥K, denies ♦K or ♠K)
7♣-P; (I think even at MP 7♣ is better than 7NT. The field can't find these grands so this is probably 90%+ anyway, and we only know of 11 tricks from top (♠A, ♥AKQ, ♦AKQ, ♣AKQJ). In clubs we can score spade ruffs in the hand to get to 13)

How does west know that east has the heart Queen? AQxx KJxx x AKQx has play in 7C but one wouldn’t want to be there. Then try it without the heart Jack.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2026-October-23, 17:04, said:

Well, we may or may not end sunny side up.
I sent the question to my partner for the tournament this weekend.
1D 1H 2C 2S* 3H 4C - does 4C set trump and indicate slam interest?

The response;
It ostensibly is asking for key cards in C's but the H K is included.
The 1st bidders hand is so well defined. 4S would be KC for hearts only, definitely slammish.

Seeking further clarification and asking what else I should know before tomorrow

I did say at the beginning that the auction raises one interesting question

[mikeh]

In my main partnership we’d bid

1D 1H 1N 2D 2H 3C:

1D is unbalanced, often 5+ but can be 4 (usually some 4441)

1N shows clubs. The west hand is absolutely minimum for this…with 10-13 hcp (we don’t open all 10 counts), west would raise hearts….and 2D is an artificial gf. 2H shows 3 hearts and, by implication, spade shortness and a non minimum.

3C sets trump.

Now 3D 3H cue bids

If west decided to ask for keycards, we’d get to grand

4D is kickback and east would show 4: in this auction, having discovered a double fit we show keycards for both hearts and clubs.

So 1D 1H 1N 2D 2H 3C 3D 3H 4D 4H 4S 7C. 4S asks for queens…both in clubs and hearts. Since west has shown 14+ hcp via the slow route to show 3 hearts and the keycard ask shows 1=3=5=4 (west wouldn’t use kickback with a spade void) east knows that grand must be good.

But I don’t know that west would use kickback. I doubt I’d bid it.

So 1D 1H 1N 2D 2H 3C 3D 3H 3S 4D…east is using kickback

4N by west…2 without the club queen. We could show the heart queen only if we also had the club queen, but of course we have neither.

East bids 5D, king ask, (edit..I made a mistake in the initial version of this) and we treat the heart queen as a king.

West bids 5N, showing the diamond King and, because he has bypassed 5H, denying the heart Queen.

Now east can’t ask about the diamond queen but west has shown a non minimum. If he’s 1354 he has to have the diamond queen or the spade King. So 6C and is going to have good play.

[mike777]

-
Ohh wait West has 3H now
Totally different auction now.
A very tricky auction

1D!-1H
2D!-2S
3C-4C
4D!-4H
4S-5H (QC and kH, denies KS and KD)(4NT would have shown QC and KS, 5D would have shown QC and KD and denied KS)
?

2D shows long D and exactly 3H and about 11-14.

Now west has shown Their shape and knows we have all the Keycards and if West bids 5NT that is tell me more but also denies the KS.


East has shown gf values and their shape, AS the KH and AKQ of clubs and has denied KS and KD.

West should bid 5NT tell me more
But I doubt my partners know kickback this well and in all this detail..

A difficult auction but an excellent teaching hand.

[mike777]

;-

[awm]

I've spent a long time trying to figure out what this thread has to do with me, or whether some other Adam was involved (Kaplan? Wildavsky? Grossack? Zmudsinski? There are lots of bridge-playing Adams). Anyway, I still have no idea, so I guess I will give Elianna and my likely auction on this hand:

1♦ - 1♥
2♥ - 3♣(1)
4♣(2) - 4NT(3)
5♥(4) - 5NT(5)
7♣(6)

(1) Natural, game force, often only four hearts
(2) 1354 (with four hearts would bid 3♥, with 2344/2353 would bid 3♠ 4sf, with short/weak clubs would bid 3nt)
(3) 1430 keycard (we don't play kickback, and anyway this hand is basically a slam force given partner's shape)
(4) Two keycards no queen of club
(5) Grand slam try / king ask
(6) With source of tricks in diamonds seems right to bid the grand

[DavidKok]

mikeh, on 2026-October-24, 05:55, said:

How does west know that east has the heart Queen? AQxx KJxx x AKQx has play in 7C but one wouldn’t want to be there. Then try it without the heart Jack.

You're right, I overlooked that. West does not know, and the end of my auction should change to reflect that.

[pescetom]

awm, on 2026-October-24, 08:44, said:

I've spent a long time trying to figure out what this thread has to do with me, or whether some other Adam was involved (Kaplan? Wildavsky? Grossack? Zmudsinski? There are lots of bridge-playing Adams).

Adam was the biggest weather storm on the horizon of Southern Europe on the day.
The board caused some havoc once the auction was over.

[mike777]

 pescetom, on 2026-October-24, 15:05, said:

Adam was the biggest weather storm on the horizon of Southern Europe on the day.
The board caused some havoc once the auction was over.

Definitely a great deal to post and discuss. Ty.
If any partners got us to seven, I would say very well done

[pescetom]

In my better competitive partnership I suspect it would go:

1♦-1♥;
2♣-2♠; (4SGF)
3♥-4♣; (sets clubs and shows SI)
4♦ (ctl) - 4♥; (ctl)
4♠ (ctl) - 5♦ (ctl, odd keycards)
5♥ (ctl) - 5♠ (ctl)
5NT (concern ♣Q) - 7♣
P

[pescetom]

In my rogue NT partnership it would probably go:

1NT (14-17 poss. 5M, 6m, singleton) - 2♣ (ask)
2♦ (no 5M) - 3♣ (4M4M)
3NT (misfit, min) - 6NT
P

If West had shown a maximum misfit East might have explored clubs.

[pescetom]

The play is worthy of thought, I will split it into two threads to avoid confusion and to leave this one free for any further discussion of bidding and a later summary of the traveller.

[mike777]

 pescetom, on 2026-October-24, 15:55, said:

In my rogue NT partnership it would probably go:

1NT (14-17 poss. 5M, 6m, singleton) - 2♣ (ask)
2♦ (no 5M) - 3♣ (4M4M)
3NT (misfit, min) - 6NT
P

If West had shown a maximum misfit East might have explored clubs.

Ohh different rules in Italy if you are permitted to open 1NT
I wonder what the rule is in WBF championship events?