[mikl_plkcc]

I opened 2♣ because I counted 22 total points, too strong to open at the 1-level. Those opened at the 1-level or lied a 2NT could stop at 3NT. 4NT is the final makeable contract of this misfit and I want to stop there!!!!!

---

[mw64ahw]

a) Plan ahead; how are you going to show both your suits below 3N if you open 2♣?
b) Correct to 4♠ when partner has shown you 54xx 5-7

[smerriman]

You do not have a strong hand with a single suited club suit, so you were the one lying. Easy 1♣ opener for me - if that's passed out, what game do you want to play?! If you're not going to do that, you have to treat it as balanced.

[johnu]

 mikl_plkcc, on 2025-April-14, 15:49, said:

I opened 2♣ because I counted 22 total points, too strong to open at the 1-level. Those opened at the 1-level or lied a 2NT could stop at 3NT. 4NT is the final makeable contract of this misfit and I want to stop there!!!!!

4♠ is the final makeable contract and you bypassed it. GIB says 4NT is Blackwood, so stopping there is absolutely impossible. If you want to stop in NT, bid NT, either open 2NT showing 20-21 HCP, or rebid 2NT after opening 2♣. Don't try to be subtle with GIB because GIB is waiting to crush your hopes. And if you overbid by opening 2♣, be prepared for GIB to bury you with a bunch of random points and no heart control.

[mikl_plkcc]

I have 22 total points and a 1/1 response requires 6+. If partner has 4 or 5, he is entitled to pass, and we will miss a game if 3NT is possible.

However, because the hand has 2 doubletons, including unstopped hearts, I can't open 2NT, so it leaves a 2♣ opening the only option.

So what is the correct procedure of showing 2-suited hands too strong to open at the 1-level?

[mikl_plkcc]

Also in general how can I play at 4NT with a robot when the auction reaches the 4-level without a fit?

[smerriman]

 mikl_plkcc, on 2025-April-14, 16:44, said:

I have 22 total points and a 1/1 response requires 6+. If partner has 4 or 5, he is entitled to pass, and we will miss a game if 3NT is possible.

However, because the hand has 2 doubletons, including unstopped hearts, I can't open 2NT, so it leaves a 2♣ opening the only option.

So what is the correct procedure of showing 2-suited hands too strong to open at the 1-level?

If you refuse to ever change your bizarre rules, then there's no point asking for advice. If this hand were polled, I expect 1♣ would be near unanimous, perhaps with a few treating it as balanced, and none bidding the way you did.

[mikl_plkcc]

 smerriman, on 2025-April-14, 16:52, said:

If you refuse to ever change your bizarre rules, then there's no point asking for advice. If this hand were polled, I expect 1♣ would be near unanimous, perhaps with a few treating it as balanced, and none bidding the way you did.

I have learnt since a beginner that a 1NT opening bid requires 15-17 HCP, balanced, and 3 suits stopped, 2NT requires 20-21 HCP, balanced, and all suits stopped, 1/1 response requires 6+ total points, and a strong 2 clubs is made with 22+ HCP or equivalent playing strength for unbalanced hand.

So how many points do I actually need to open 2♣ with this distribution? What will happen if the 1♣ opening is passed out?

[smerriman]

If 1♣ is passed out, you are perfectly happy being in 1♣ - if partner can't respond, chances of game are extremely remote, while there is a high chance that opening 2♣ will get you far too high in a hopeless contract. And if there is enough distribution to make game plausible opposite nothing, one of the opponents is likely to overcall, after which you get another shot.

And if 1♣ was not going to be passed out, then you're far better off as well with more space to explore.

Rules are fine for beginners, but opening 2♣ is nothing to do with points; you have to think about how the auction is going to go. Likewise, nobody these days requires 6 points to respond. (And we've already covered how your rules for stoppers made no sense.)

[mikl_plkcc]

Given the exact hand, if partner has something like ♥QJTxx and 3 small ♣, we may well already have 3NT, but partner is not going to respond because he doesn't have 6 points, and the stronger I am, the less likely that the opponents have enough strength to enter the auction, especially when our only available game is in NT so there aren't shapely hands.

I just need my partner to show me some ♥ in order to play 3NT.

[smerriman]

If partner has ♥QJTxx and three small clubs, the opponents will almost surely lead a spade; where on earth are you getting 9 tricks from? The opponents will get 2 hearts, 3-4 spades, a club.. you need some luck to even make 1NT.

[hrothgar]

 mikl_plkcc, on 2025-April-14, 17:01, said:

I have learnt since a beginner that a 1NT opening bid requires 15-17 HCP, balanced, and 3 suits stopped, 2NT requires 20-21 HCP, balanced, and all suits stopped,

Not sure who your teacher was, but they did a hell of a lot of damage

[hrothgar]

 mikl_plkcc, on 2025-April-14, 16:44, said:

So what is the correct procedure of showing 2-suited hands too strong to open at the 1-level?

You open 2!C, obviously.
The issue here is that you do NOT have a two suited hand that is too strong to open at the one level.

A few days back, you posted another 2!C club opener.

I noted that

1. This was a perfectly reasonable 2!C opening
2. In general, people are often reticent to open 2!C with two suited hands because of the amount of bidding space that is consumed
3. This holds doubly true for hands with secondary Diamonds

Well, guess what happened to you this time around

[Huibertus]

The question you really should be asking is "What is the upper limit for a 1 level opening?"

According to the descriptions it is 21 HCP / 22 Total points. Realize there is some overlap with a strong opening for a reason. Your hand is fine for a 1♣/2♦reverse, too weak (playing strength, not HCP) for a 2♣opening.

[P_Marlowe]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-April-14, 16:44, said:

I have 22 total points and a 1/1 response requires 6+. If partner has 4 or 5, he is entitled to pass, and we will miss a game if 3NT is possible.

However, because the hand has 2 doubletons, including unstopped hearts, I can't open 2NT, so it leaves a 2♣ opening the only option.

So what is the correct procedure of showing 2-suited hands too strong to open at the 1-level?

You have 20HCP. Not 22.
Bal. vs. bal with combined 25HCP count makes 3NT on avg. a 40% proposition.
If p has 6+ HCP he will respond. You will end up in game.
If you use Total points, the req. number of making a game a reasonable option
increases.

A NT opening does not promise every suit stopped, this was an req. in
times long past, but the req. got dropped. A NT opening tells p about your shape
and gives a pretty accurate descr. about the point range you happen to hold.

If you should open NT with 22 in the majors is a different discussion, if you do
this, you have to accept that you may end up in a 5-2 fit at the game level.
It could be worse, but this is a price you have to pay sometimes.
Bidding is not an exact science.

It is common expert praxis to open 2-suited hand at 1-level, and they try hard to
avoid opening those hands with 2C.
You could do a lot worse than to always open at the 1-level.
You may miss game. But ask yourself, how often did you end up in the wrong contract
after opening 2C up to now?
But to answer your q. you open with 2C.
And just for completness sake, there are methods that allow opener to show a specific
2-suiter after a 2C opening, but those 2-suiters are usually 5+5+, ..., and they dont
come up and are rarely played. (Un-)Luckily for you, I was not able to find a webside.

[mikl_plkcc]

Huibertus, on 2025-April-15, 01:05, said:

The question you really should be asking is "What is the upper limit for a 1 level opening?"

According to the descriptions it is 21 HCP / 22 Total points. Realize there is some overlap with a strong opening for a reason. Your hand is fine for a 1♣/2♦reverse, too weak (playing strength, not HCP) for a 2♣opening.

Do I always need 9 1/2 playing tricks to open 2♣ if my intention is to play in a minor, regardless of HCPs?

[mw64ahw]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-April-15, 02:13, said:

Do I always need 9 1/2 playing tricks to open 2♣ if my intention is to play in a minor, regardless of HCPs?

My intention is to play in NT before a minor especially on such 2-suited hands.
I require 8.5 playing tricks & 23+total points, but then I show xx45 via a 2N opening, which does not contain balanced hands.

For the hand above
1♣ - 1♠
2♦ - 2♥
3N

[mikl_plkcc]

mw64ahw, on 2025-April-15, 03:36, said:

My intention is to play in NT before a minor especially on such 2-suited hands.
I require 8.5 playing tricks & 23+total points, but then I show xx45 via a 2N opening, which does not contain balanced hands.

For the hand above
1♣ - 1♠
2♦ - 2♥
3N

Of course my intention is to play in NT as well but this is not a balanced hand, and with xx in ♥ it scares the ***** out of me opening NT.

So in this case, if the hand is strong enough to play 3NT if the partner is weak and has the cricital suit, but not strong to play a minor game, is it still a better idea to open 1 of a minor and hope that my partner can bid a major?

With the following dummy (the 2-queen test), is 3NT playable with reasonable chance (>=45%)? A 1♣ opening would be passed.
♠Q765
♥Q987
♦43
♣983

[hrothgar]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-April-15, 04:07, said:

With the following dummy (the 2-queen test), is 3NT playable with reasonable chance (>=45%)? A 1♣ opening would be passed.
♠Q765
♥Q987
♦43
♣983

Who cares...

When you are evaluating a choice of bid, you need to do so across a wide variety of hands and not some specific hand (even if it is one that you might find interesting)

[P_Marlowe]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-April-15, 04:07, said:

Of course my intention is to play in NT as well but this is not a balanced hand, and with xx in ♥ it scares the ***** out of me opening NT.

So in this case, if the hand is strong enough to play 3NT if the partner is weak and has the cricital suit, but not strong to play a minor game, is it still a better idea to open 1 of a minor and hope that my partner can bid a major?

With the following dummy (the 2-queen test), is 3NT playable with reasonable chance (>=45%)? A 1♣ opening would be passed.
♠Q765
♥Q987
♦43
♣983

Given that you cant stand a NT opening / rebidding NT without knowing that you are facing some length, which is ok,
you need to accept the risk of 1C getting passed out.
If you start with 2C, and try to sell the hand as 2-suiter, you will have bypassed 3NT, and the laws dont allow you
to get back to 3NT.
In the end it is, choose your poision, you cannot have it all.
If the probabiliy that 3NT is making with your dummy hand is in the 45% range, you are basically break even, i.e. going to
game is ok, but so is staying out. And only because the probability of 3NT making is 45%, this does not mean that 4NT has
a reasonable prob., ..., to play 4NT you need a lot more than 50%, if you reg. end up there.

The alternative is play a strong 1C opening, this comes with its own problems, but ok, again if you cant stand NT opening / rebidding,
and you cant stand the possibility of 1C being passed out, you need to accept the problems that come with strong 1C openings.