[timouthy]

I have had this happen to me before on more than one occasion. I was subbing in an ACBL speedball tourney on 1/14/2024 #16021. I came in on hand 2 and played through hand 11, at which point I was whisked off the table with no explanation??!! I went and looked at who "replaced" me through hand records, and saw it was [ED: a player]. This is the same person who started the tourney and played hand one and then left!! So you can see the way this scam works now. You know you are not very good so just play one hand, then leave and comeback on last hand and see how it looks. If it looks promising, stay and accept your well earned MPs. If you are still not sure you will score on this last hand , just sit there without bidding and see what happens, which is by the way, what she did in this case. Just a brilliant scam really!! And if I was inclined to believe in conspiracies, I would say that BBO promotes this kind of behavior intentionally.

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2024-January-16, 02:38

[diana_eva]

Substitutes in BBO tournaments are selected randomly from a list of substitutes of varying levels, and there is no guarantee that a substitute will perform better than the original player.

Also, when substitutes step in, they do so without prior agreements or understanding with their temporary partner. This lack of established partnership coordination is generally a disadvantage, especially compared to players who have prepared and entered the game together.

Intentionally disconnecting with the hope that a substitute will perform better is a risky and unreliable strategy.

In the case you describe with the player "just sitting there and not bidding" that sounds like the player was still experiencing connection problems. When the original player comes back, they do not immediately see the results of the subs. Those results only become visible on the next round change. If they log back in during the last round, they will have no idea what their score is up to that point.

[jillybean]

timouthy, on 2024-January-14, 11:44, said:

I have had this happen to me before on more than one occasion. I was subbing in an ACBL speedball tourney on 1/14/2024 #16021. I came in on hand 2 and played through hand 11, at which point I was whisked off the table with no explanation??!! I went and looked at who "replaced" me through hand records, and saw it was []ED: a player. This is the same person who started the tourney and played hand one and then left!! So you can see the way this scam works now. You know you are not very good so just play one hand, then leave and comeback on last hand and see how it looks. If it looks promising, stay and accept your well earned MPs. If you are still not sure you will score on this last hand , just sit there without bidding and see what happens, which is by the way, what she did in this case. Just a brilliant scam really!! And if I was inclined to believe in conspiracies, I would say that BBO promotes this kind of behavior intentionally.

What a great trick, perhaps now I can get more Masterpoints.

On the other hand, who gets the Masterpoints, the original registered pair or the sub(s)?

[diana_eva]

jillybean, on 2024-January-14, 13:34, said:

On the other hand, who gets the Masterpoints, the original registered pair or the sub(s)?

The original player gets the results, including any masterpoints won, if they return before the game is completed.

[jillybean]

Thanks, and if the original player does not return is the sub awarded any master points?

[diana_eva]

jillybean, on 2024-January-14, 14:08, said:

Thanks, and if the original player does not return is the sub awarded any master points?

If the sub finishes the game and has played more than half the boards the sub keeps the results, yes. But only if they are actually finishing the last board -- ie, the original player never returned.

[timouthy]

diana_eva, on 2024-January-14, 13:05, said:

Substitutes in BBO tournaments are selected randomly from a list of substitutes of varying levels, and there is no guarantee that a substitute will perform better than the original player.

Also, when substitutes step in, they do so without prior agreements or understanding with their temporary partner. This lack of established partnership coordination is generally a disadvantage, especially compared to players who have prepared and entered the game together.

Intentionally disconnecting with the hope that a substitute will perform better is a risky and unreliable strategy.

In the case you describe with the player "just sitting there and not bidding" that sounds like the player was still experiencing connection problems. When the original player comes back, they do not immediately see the results of the subs. Those results only become visible on the next round change. If they log back in during the last round, they will have no idea what their score is up to that point.

[timouthy]

Whew Diana you gave a lot of useless info. Here I am describing a bizarre feature of your (I assume you are a spokesperson for BBO) organization and you dance all around, giving irrelevant info and didn't address my main points. Why does BBO allow a person to capture the master points when they haven't played even close to half of the hands???????????????????????????? First handle that one and then you can throw in all of your excuses for what might have happened with the original players "connection problems" which you don't know for sure happened.

[timouthy]

jillybean, on 2024-January-14, 13:34, said:

What a great trick, perhaps now I can get more Masterpoints.

On the other hand, who gets the Masterpoints, the original registered pair or the sub(s)?

I dont think I could have been more clear....the original player does!!!!

[timouthy]

diana_eva, on 2024-January-14, 13:05, said:

Substitutes in BBO tournaments are selected randomly from a list of substitutes of varying levels, and there is no guarantee that a substitute will perform better than the original player.

Also, when substitutes step in, they do so without prior agreements or understanding with their temporary partner. This lack of established partnership coordination is generally a disadvantage, especially compared to players who have prepared and entered the game together.

Intentionally disconnecting with the hope that a substitute will perform better is a risky and unreliable strategy.

In the case you describe with the player "just sitting there and not bidding" that sounds like the player was still experiencing connection problems. When the original player comes back, they do not immediately see the results of the subs. Those results only become visible on the next round change. If they log back in during the last round, they will have no idea what their score is up to that point.

See my reply below

[diana_eva]

timouthy, on 2024-January-14, 15:04, said:

... Why does BBO allow a person to capture the master points when they haven't played even close to half of the hands???????????????????????????? ...

BBO allows the original player to regain their seat, if they manage to reconnect before the game ended. Disconnections can occur for a variety of reasons, many of which are beyond a player's control, such as internet issues or technical problems. In such cases, our current policy is to give players the opportunity to return to the game and continue their participation.

[diana_eva]

timouthy, on 2024-January-14, 15:04, said:

First handle that one and then you can throw in all of your excuses for what might have happened with the original players "connection problems" which you don't know for sure happened.

You dont know what happened either. Yet you are proposing an elaborate scheme of intentional disconnects and reconnects on the basis that 1. partner will do well playing with an unknown partner with no agreements and 2. the sub who comes is better than the original player.

[diana_eva]

How about we try a more constructive discussion here, since you brought this up. Your contribution as a substitute is appreciated, even though it might sometimes feel like a thankless task.

We're thinking about ways to better recognize and thank our substitutes. However, we also need to consider the players who started the game. They have paid to participate, they registered with a partner whom they probably do not want to disappoint, and naturally want to complete their game. BBO's current policies revolve around the idea that it wouldn't be right to deny them this opportunity.

If you have thoughts and suggestions on how we can improve this process please don't hesitate to post here -- we're happy to hear from our players.

[smerriman]

Splitting the MPs proportionally based on how many hands each player has completed seems a straightforward enough solution.

[timouthy]

diana_eva, on 2024-January-14, 15:31, said:

You dont know what happened either. Yet you are proposing an elaborate scheme of intentional disconnects and reconnects on the basis that 1. partner will do well playing with an unknown partner with no agreements and 2. the sub who comes is better than the original player.

Whew! You could not have given a more tone deaf and repetitive response, now could you? My real hope was that your organization could rise to the occasion and see just exactly what they are doing wrong and make a small itty bitty obvious change like splitting any master points earned between the two for example. Like based on the amount of hands played by each or even fifty-fifty. But I anticipated your repetitve and corporate "response" which is why I titled my post the way I did. I hope that every potential sub now can learn your silly policy which you seem to want noone to know.

[timouthy]

jillybean, on 2024-January-14, 14:08, said:

Thanks, and if the original player does not return is the sub awarded any master points?

Yes

[paulg]

Although I don't care for timouthy's tone, the implication that BBO is awarding ACBL master points to ACBL members who have not played the minimum number of boards in a competition is more serious.

Of course, we don't know that BBO actually does this, since we don't see what BBO is actually sending the ACBL; and BBO can distribute its own points in any way it sees fit.

And, like all simple looking problems, I expect it is a lot more complicated than it looks since most things involving master points are. For example, in an ideal world, a provider like BBO would send the results of a tourney to the ACBL and get the master point allocation back. But then you need an interface where you can say pair A & B played boards 1 and 12, players A & C played boards 2-10, and A & D played 11.

In our virtual club games for the Scottish Bridge Union, we have to manually make these decisions and our master point awards are a couple of magnitudes simpler than the ABCL's.

[jillybean]

Paul, I don't think we are talking about the same product. ACBL points are not purely an indication of skill level and are freely available playing with robots. But some players still like them !

[timouthy]

A follow-up: The intended partner for [ED: original player] was a person named [ED: another player]. This person was not only not there at the start of the tourney, but only came on in hand 10 for one hand only!!! and upon which we scored ~ %40. Then (s)he left and most likely told [E: original player] to come back because the score was good enough. So its looking like a better and better scam than even I anticipated. So there you have it....you can score master points by playing one hand only (even if you get a sub 50% score!!!!!) in a tourney by conspiring with your partner and orchestrating it just like this.... Come back and play one hand near the end enough to get the current score and then pass it along to your partner, who will finish with or without you on the last hand and both of you laugh at BBO all the way to the bank.
I still don't know which organization is responsible for this, BBO or the ACBL, but I will be contacting the ACBL tomorrow to find out one way or the other.

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2024-January-16, 02:39
Reason for edit: removed usernames

[diana_eva]

timouthy accusing players who are not here to defend themselves of unethical behavioiur is against the rules of the forums. You are welcome to theorize and discuss issues and propose solutions, but dont post names and accusations in the forums. For ACBL issues, you can contact acbl@bridgebase.com. For abuse, you can send your concerns to abuse@bridgebase.com.