[michel444]

---

south is Dealer
and we supose he pass
what do you open with your favorite system?

[mikeh]

michel444, on 2022-September-13, 18:08, said:

---

south is Dealer
and we supose he pass
what do you open with your favorite system?

A pretty much meaningless question


What one opens depends on the system one has agreed to play.

Thus those who play a 1N opening range that includes 14 hcp open 1N, since any other opening bid means that one is forced later to (further) misdescribe one’s hand.

While there are rar3 occasions, in competitive auctions, where one might mislead partner intentionally, hoping to gain by misleading the opps to a greater or more effective degree, it’s just silly to begin a constructive auction with a misbid.

Thus I open 1N with one partner because we use 14-16. I open 1C (yes, 1C) in my other because we play 2C as 2+, 1D as unbalanced, and a nv 1N as 11-23.

If I played with my wife, I’d open 1D because she plays 15-17 and 1C promises 3 (and she’s open 1D with 4=3 minors anyway)

If you’re thinking that this is worth a 15-17 1N, you’re wrong. Yes, it has nice controls but it has no 5 card suit (often worth close to a hcp in valuation) and no spot cards..

Give me AK10x 10x QJ9x A10x and I’d value this as 15

Anyone who upgrades this into 1N isn’t playing 15-17, and if they have that on their convention card, they are lying to their opps because they play a method that their partner will of not already then shortly, know but which the opponents don’t know.

[sfi]

mikeh, on 2022-September-13, 18:36, said:

A pretty much meaningless question

This. Depending on which partner I'm playing with, any one-level opening may be right. I don't think I've ever played anything where I should bid something higher, but I wouldn't rule it out.

But if you want an answer, I'll go with 1C playing Polish Club.

[LBengtsson]

My - I hope - logical answer would be whatever bid is best in your system and accurately describes your hand, always taking into consideration that you (probably) need to rebid when partner responds.

Say we are playing vanilla (basic) Wei Precision, where 1♦ = 4+♦ 11-15, and 1NT = 13-15 balanced. What would be the best bid here? Obviously 1NT as it is a more fixed point range and describes your hand in one bid. A 1♦ opener could include many other hands such as (34)51, 4441, (42)61, (21)55 and many balanced hands where you do not have 13 points.

Describing your hand accurately on an opening bid, and especially where you can bid 1NT here, if using a 12-14/13-15 or 14/16 NT system, will help partner also if the opps. intervene.

There is no upgrade here as even Kaplan/Rubens rate it as a 14.2 even with its 3 controls.

[nullve]

michel444, on 2022-September-13, 18:08, said:

what do you open with your favorite system?

1N

[michel444]

nullve, on 2022-September-14, 00:42, said:

1N

for all that open 1 NT north come in with Cappelletti and bid 2♥ showing 5+H and a a 5+ minor and East have a problem with a balance hand 4 spade and inviting value

[apollo1201]

(delete duplicate message)

[apollo1201]

michel444, on 2022-September-14, 13:49, said:

for all that open 1 NT north come in with Cappelletti and bid 2♥ showing 5+H and a a 5+ minor and East have a problem with a balance hand 4 spade and inviting value

E has a problem only if they have not discussed this quite common situation with their partner
Most people nowadays play X as some kind of T/O, but passable by partner with eg. 4 nice trumps, stating this is our hand, while looking for the other M or stoppers.

[mikeh]

It’s common to treat the 2H overcall, showing hearts and a minor, as if it showed just hearts. It’s even more common to play negative doubles of overcalls after ac1N opening bid, at least amongst advanced or expert pairs. So the 2H bid doesn’t affect most experienced players

[gwnn]

sfi, on 2022-September-13, 19:19, said:

But if you want an answer, I'll go with 1C playing Polish Club.

Disagree. I prefer 1D playing Polish Club.

(we play that opener can choose between 1C and 1D depending on mood. Here I feel more comfortable bidding 1D and rebidding 1S).

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2022-September-13, 18:36, said:

A pretty much meaningless question


What one opens depends on the system one has agreed to play.

Thus those who play a 1N opening range that includes 14 hcp open 1N, since any other opening bid means that one is forced later to (further) misdescribe one’s hand.

While there are rar3 occasions, in competitive auctions, where one might mislead partner intentionally, hoping to gain by misleading the opps to a greater or more effective degree, it’s just silly to begin a constructive auction with a misbid.

Thus I open 1N with one partner because we use 14-16. I open 1C (yes, 1C) in my other because we play 2C as 2+, 1D as unbalanced, and a nv 1N as 11-23.

If I played with my wife, I’d open 1D because she plays 15-17 and 1C promises 3 (and she’s open 1D with 4=3 minors anyway)

If you’re thinking that this is worth a 15-17 1N, you’re wrong. Yes, it has nice controls but it has no 5 card suit (often worth close to a hcp in valuation) and no spot cards..

Give me AK10x 10x QJ9x A10x and I’d value this as 15

Anyone who upgrades this into 1N isn’t playing 15-17, and if they have that on their convention card, they are lying to their opps because they play a method that their partner will of not already then shortly, know but which the opponents don’t know.

I agree with you about upgrading, I consider this more than 14, but not close enough to 15 to upgrade, 2 aces, 2 sets of touching honours, but I think this is only ♦2 becoming the 10 off an upgrade. I would open this 1N in either of my partnerships, more comfortably in the 12-15 one than the 12-14 one.

[sfi]

gwnn, on 2022-October-18, 10:50, said:

Disagree. I prefer 1D playing Polish Club.

That’s fine if your version of the system to allow that. We don’t have that luxury.

[helene_t]

With my favourite system I show a balanced hand, preferably as narrow range as possible. So probably this strength is in my notrump range, otherwise hopefully I can open a minor suit opening (such as 1♣ playing boring club) which specifically shows a balanced hand.

Second choice is to open a minor suit playing Coded Minors, or showing my spades in a system like Swedish Standard in which this hand is too weak for 1NT and then we bid our 4-card major if we have one (but only with 12-14, so this 1♠ bid would show 5 unless it is 12-14 balanced).

What I would prefer not to do is:
- show my diamond suit. That is not the most important feature of the hand imho.
- bid a nebolous 1♣ which can be clubs or any balanced 12-14 or 18-19 hand. I think that's overloaded.
- show 4+ spades with little extra info such as in Moscito or Auken-von Arnim. That makes the spade-showing opening overloaded imho. (Edit: I know that modern Moscito opens 1NT with this hand so while I do think the red suit openings are a bit overloaded, at least it doesn't affect this hand).

[gwnn]

sfi, on 2022-October-18, 13:37, said:

That’s fine if your version of the system to allow that. We don’t have that luxury.

It was mostly a tongue-in-cheek post.

[gwnn]

helene_t, on 2022-October-18, 16:13, said:

- show 4+ spades with little extra info such as in Moscito or Auken-von Arnim. That makes the spade-showing opening overloaded imho. (Edit: I know that modern Moscito opens 1NT with this hand so while I do think the red suit openings are a bit overloaded, at least it doesn't affect this hand).

I thought you liked 1♦ = 4 spades, 10-15, any

Although I admit the few hands we bid with it, it didn't really work as well as I thought it would.

[helene_t]

gwnn, on 2022-October-21, 03:44, said:

I thought you liked 1♦ = 4 spades, 10-15, any

Although I admit the few hands we bid with it, it didn't really work as well as I thought it would.

Oh yes that was quite cool, sorry I forgot to include that! Showing exactly 4 spades is obviously great.

[Douglas43]

michel444, on 2022-September-14, 13:49, said:

for all that open 1 NT north come in with Cappelletti and bid 2♥ showing 5+H and a a 5+ minor and East have a problem with a balance hand 4 spade and inviting value

If partner doesn't bid over 2♥, I have a reopening double.