[nullve]

Maybe

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South-North
1♦-2♣
2♦(1)-2♥
4♣(2)-4♦(3)
4N(4)-5♣(5)
6♥-P

1) Assuming a style where 2♥ would promise extras
2) Splinter (what else?)
3) cue
4) RKC
5) 0 or 3 key cards

?

[jillybean]

Nice but..
Should you splinter in partners first suit?
South does not have a diamond cue.

[Cyberyeti]

jillybean, on 2021-August-07, 04:12, said:

Nice but..
Should you splinter in partners first suit?
South does not have a diamond cue.

You need agreements on your cues, we won't splinter in partner's suit on your first cue, so would not bid 4♣ which absorbs way too much space anyway, and partner with ♦AQJxxx knows you have the K rather than a stiff with 4♦. N has a VERY difficult bid if he can't bid 4♦ over 4♣ however and it may be least of evils, but this is part of why 4♣ is not a good bid.

Our full auction would be something like

1♦-2♣
2♦-2♥(kinda 3rd suit forcing not GF artificial)
2N(5+♦4+♥ minimum ish)-3♠(bid 3N with a spade stop, or agreeing hearts slammish if I bid on over 3N)
3N-4♣
4♥(no ♦ cue]-4♠(Kickback)
5♣(1/4)-5♦(Q♥?)
5♠ (yes and ♠K)-6♥

[fromageGB]

jillybean, on 2021-August-07, 03:26, said:

Playing 2/1 or std, I want to bid my 5 card ♣ suit before my 4 card ♥'s.

Ah! I guess I am in the mafia camp as for me it is majors first (cheaper). Should opener not have 4 card support he describes his shape and then I will see where to go.

[Winstonm]

jillybean, on 2021-August-07, 04:12, said:

Nice but..
Should you splinter in partners first suit?
South does not have a diamond cue.

I do not believe a splinter in partner's suit is a good idea - as a source of tricks it makes more sense to cue bid secondary honors, filler cards.

[Winstonm]

jillybean, on 2021-August-07, 04:12, said:

Nice but..
Should you splinter in partners first suit?
South does not have a diamond cue.

Here is my interpretation of how this would go. I don't think there is anything unusual here to remember.

1D-2C
2D-2H
3H*-4C *this hand has controls, shape, and decent support, so not fast arrival.
4H*-5C* * sign off is required as no diamond control. *I have diamond control and good clubs and hearts.
5S*-6H* *OK. I have what it sounds like you need - spade controls. * I am missing the the diamond ace.

PS: Note that Kickback and Keycard are totally absent, but a little judgment is required.

[jillybean]

Thanks. As you say, nothing unusual, it's a logical conversation.

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[Winstonm]

jillybean, on 2021-August-07, 12:34, said:

Thanks. As you say, nothing unusual, it's a logical conversation.

---

Exactly

[Gilithin]

I see the conversation a little differently to be honest. First of the auction up to 3♥ should be non-controversial, regardless of whether the system is 2/1, SA, SEF or Acol. After 3♥ methods come into play. First of all the basic system Winston was working with. 4♣ is clear and since South's first job is to limit their hand I can support the 4♥, after which 5♣ is again clear. This is where I disagree though - North has denied a spade control here so without one South would automatically bid 5♥. So I think 5♦ here should be a form of Last Train and explicitly deny a diamond control, with any call above 5♥ showing controls in both. So my preference there would be a 5♦ bid instead of 5♠.

Things are a little different if we are playing Frivolous 3♠/3NT; now 4♣ is a Serious cue and South's first job is to show or deny a spade control. In this case the bid is 4♦ rather than 4♥ using the same logic as after 5♣ in the previous auction.

Similarly for Serious 3♠/3NT. If North bids a Serious 3♠, South can show the spade control with 3NT and the rest is easy. If North instead bids a Serious 3NT, South can show the spade control (and club shortage) with 4♣ and again things will work out.

Finally, using Frivolous 3♠ and denial cues, North can bid 3NT over 3♥ ask about spades while showing serious slam interest and South continues 4♦, once again showing the spade control and club shortage.

You will notice that the more advanced methods require more memory but a little less actual judgement/luck than the basic methods. Which is easier to play is something of a matter of taste.