[Aviator12]

Hello,

If i have a 6-7 long minor and a 5 long major do i open minor or major? If I open major, how will i show the length of the minor?

Thanks in advance

[mw64ahw]

Opening a minor for me denies a 5 card Major

[Cyberyeti]

mw64ahw, on 2021-April-28, 14:08, said:

Opening a minor for me denies a 5 card Major

If you play 5 card majors it's fairly common to play this style, I normally play Acol so open my longer minor in most cases.

[smerriman]

You're not going to find a consensus here - it's a common point of debate. It depends a lot on the strength of your hand, where the honors are located, and even which suits they are - with spades and a minor, it's much safer to open the minor.

But even with hearts and a minor, this poll of - QJ752 AQJT86 63 had 59% voting for 1♦ and 33% voting for 1♥.

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2021-April-28, 14:16, said:

If you play 5 card majors it's fairly common to play this style, I normally play Acol so open my longer minor in most cases.

No it isn’t

It’s a weird variant. It is definitely neither Standard American nor normal in 2/1.

Steve Robinson is a strong believer in this style but there are few other strong experts (excluding forcing club and other non-standard methods) who espouse it.

While it can be effective, concealing the extreme shape from the opponents when a major suit fit is found immediately, it also conceals the shape from partner...likely permanently.

One common exception is a moderate 5=6 reds, where it is common to open 1H due to the rebid problems that arise after 1D 1S or 1D 1N.

5H 6C can create similar issues, but (imo) it is unsound to even consider 1S with 5S and a longer minor.

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2021-April-28, 14:26, said:

No it isn’t

It’s a weird variant. It is definitely neither Standard American nor normal in 2/1.

Steve Robinson is a strong believer in this style but there are few other strong experts (excluding forcing club and other non-standard methods) who espouse it.

While it can be effective, concealing the extreme shape from the opponents when a major suit fit is found immediately, it also conceals the shape from partner...likely permanently.

One common exception is a moderate 5=6 reds, where it is common to open 1H due to the rebid problems that arise after 1D 1S or 1D 1N.

5H 6C can create similar issues, but (imo) it is unsound to even consider 1S with 5S and a longer minor.

5♠ 6♣ I think many would open 1♣, but not playing 2/1 5♠ 6♦ gets really awkward over 1♦-2♣ if you're not strong enough to reverse particularly Acol style where 2♣ doesn't promise another bid.

[mikeh]

Aviator12, on 2021-April-28, 13:59, said:

If I open major, how will i show the length of the minor?

You don’t, which is the reason why it isn’t a good idea with 5=7 and seldom a good idea with 5=6

[helene_t]

Obviously it is more attractive to open the major with something like
x
KQJT9
Kxxxxx
x
where you know that you won't get the chance to bid the hearts otherwise unless partner has a GF hand, and where you are OK playing hearts with two small trumps in the dummy. Suppose the auction goes
1♦-2♣
2♦-3NT
?
you suspect that 4♥ is the right contract, but are you sure that partner will understand 4♥? If 2♦ was non-forcing as in Acol or Goren, it is probably safe to bid 4♥ now as it can hardly be anything other than this hand, but if 2♦ was unlimited, you may wonder if partner will take 4♥ as a slam try (but then again, you could have slam, of course).

But it also depends a bit on your system. If you hold a more mundane hand like
AJxxx
x
AJxxxx
x
you may be ok opening 1♠ playing SEF, SAYC or 2/1 where
1♠-2♥
2♠*
would be forcing and not suggesting better/longer spades, than if you play Goren or Acol in which this auction could leave you in 2♠ in a 5-1 fit.

If you play some 5M4+m 2-openings such as Muiderberg or whatever, you could also consider playing those as very sound so that a hand like the above just opens at the 2-level.

But the short answer is that most would open minor except in extreme cases like the first example. But it varies a bit between regions.

[perko90]

If you have enough strength to reverse, then definitely open the minor.
But if you don't, it's usually best to open the major and rebid the minor twice (if the auction allows), treating the hand like a 5-5.

[jillybean]

As others have said, generally, you open the longer minor, anything else misrepresents the shape of your hand.

If partner responds with your major suit, you have found your fit and can bid accordingly.

If partner passes, and your hand isn't strong enough to reverse, you may be able to show the major suit at the 1 level.
1♣ (1♥) P (P)
1♠

With enough to compete to the 2 level, you can double.
1♣ (1♠) P (P)
X

[Trinidad]

jillybean, on 2021-May-03, 13:39, said:

As others have said, generally, you open the longer minor, anything else misrepresents the shape of your hand.

If partner responds with your major suit, you have found your fit and can bid accordingly.

If partner passes, and your hand isn't strong enough to reverse, you may be able to show the major suit at the 1 level.
1♣ (1♥) P (P)
1♠

With enough to compete to the 2 level, you can double.
1♣ (1♠) P (P)
X

I would say that with enough to compete to the 2 level, you bid at the two level:
1♣ (1♠) P (P)
2♥

After all, you do not want your partner to pass the double if you have a 5-6 hand.

Rik

[jillybean]

Trinidad, on 2021-May-04, 07:12, said:

I would say that with enough to compete to the 2 level, you bid at the two level:
1♣ (1♠) P (P)
2♥

After all, you do not want your partner to pass the double if you have a 5-6 hand.

Rik

That depends on how you play 2♥, it is a reverse.
With a hand that does not meet your 2♥ criteria, X leaves partner in the picture to bid 2♥ or retreat to 2♣/2♦.

I have confidence partner would not pass 1♣ (1♠) P (P) X unless he thought he could penalize 1♠ opposite a 5-6 hand.

[Stephen Tu]

jillybean, on 2021-May-04, 14:07, said:

That depends on how you play 2♥, it is a reverse.
With a hand that does not meet your 2♥ criteria, X leaves partner in the picture to bid 2♥ or retreat to 2♣/2♦.

I have confidence partner would not pass 1♣ (1♠) P (P) X unless he thought he could penalize 1♠ opposite a 5-6 hand.

Reopen doubling with 5-6 is gross. Partner can't possibly cater to such a rare offensive hand, and it's going to get weird when he bids a lot in the other minor or something like that. Plus you'll still have to bid your hearts twice to get your shape across anyway, so you haven't really improved matters, except in the rare case where partner has a stack and no game makes your way and the opps can't run to 2d. You aren't passing partner's 2d are you?

My recommendations:
1. You should allow reverses when 5-6 shape with fewer HCP than you reverse on 4-5/4-6 shapes. Play 1m ... 2h ... 3h as NF, bid 1m ... 2h ... 4h with the hands that can't stand partner choosing to play a partial.

2. If you open the minor, commit yourself to bidding the major twice.

3. On the very min range of hands you open where you don't feel comfortable with bidding the major twice and forcing to 3H/4m, just open 1H and bury the 6th minor card, pretend you are 5-5. 5-3M fits are just too common and valuable to lose.
If the major is spades then you can open the minor a lot more comfortably on a wider range since you can bid 1s and 2s fairly often.