[Zelandakh]

rbforster, on 2020-September-28, 19:03, said:

For a while I tried to get a 2/1 non-forcing, non-constructive framework to work over a limited/precision 1M opener.

Have you tried my method?

[rbforster]

Zelandakh, on 2020-September-29, 03:53, said:

Have you tried my method?

I have not. Can you link it so I can check it out?

[Zelandakh]

rbforster, on 2020-October-02, 04:00, said:

I have not. Can you link it so I can check it out?

I have posted it a number of times but do not have any links stored. It runs like this:-

1♥ (always unbalanced)
==
1♠ = INV+ relay
1NT = weak, 4+♠
2♣ = weak, 4+♣ (and usually <4♠)
2♦ = weak, 5+♦ (and usually <4♠ <4♣)
2♥+ = various ♥ raises
--

1♥ - 1♠
==
1NT = min <4♠ (then 2♣ = GF relay; others = INV)
2♣ = 4+♠ (then 2♦ = GF relay, others = INV)
2♦ = GF, 4+♣
2♥ = GF, 1-suited
2♠ = GF, 5+♦
2NT+ = GF, 4♦
--

1♠ (always unbalanced)
==
1NT = INV+ relay
2♣ = weak, 4+♣
2♦ = weak, 4+♦ (and usually <4♣)
2♥ ) weak, 5+♥ (and usually <4♣ <4♦)
2♠+ = various ♠ raises
--

1♠- 1NT
==
2♣ = min <4♥ (then 2♦ = GF relay; others = INV)
2♦ = 4+♥ (then 2♥ = GF relay, others = INV)
2♥ = GF, 4+♣
2♠ = GF, 1-suited
2NT = GF, 5+♦
3♣+ = GF, 4♦
--

[nige1]

rbforster, on 2020-September-28, 19:03, said:

For a while I tried to get a 2/1 non-forcing, non-constructive framework to work over a limited/precision 1M opener. The general idea was that 1N was forcing and included all GF hands without M support

In the 70s, Elizabeth McGowan and I, played Nottingham Club (similar to Precision). We adopted RBFoster's modification: a forcing !N reply to 1M. Change of suit was constructive but non-forcing. It works well. Also, before the Italians grafted low-level asking-bids onto Precision, we concocted our own version to play with Nottingham Club.

[PrecisionL]

Ah, Nottingham Club! I played it a few years ago in Nottingham, England with a club member.

Actually, Precision is similar to The Nottingham Club, published in 1954, 1959, 1969.

I still use Nottingham's INFORMATIVE DOUBLE and 1NT OVERCALL FOR TAKEOUT in my defensive strategy.

[Kungsgeten]

For a while I was very interested in opening weak hands. I threw together a couple of forcing pass systems, but never tried them.

Pass = 17+ any, or a weak hand which can't make another bid.
1C = Any 11-16 unbal, or 13-16 NT.
1D = Any weak one-suiter.
1M = Weak, 4M and 5+m.
1NT = 10-12
2C = Weak, both minors.
2D = Weak, both majors.
2M = Weak, 5+M and 4m.

A more "natural" idea was some artificial uses for the 1NT response to a natural 4+ 1C opening. I think one of them was some sort of inverted minor raise...

[nullve]

Here

Spoiler

1♣ = 11-21, 3+ C / 17+ BAL
1♦ = 11-21, (3)4+ D (3c only if 11-13, 4432)
1♥ = 11-21, 5+ H
1♠ = 11-21, 5+ S
1N = 14-16 BAL
2♣ = strong, unBAL, F3M
2♦(NV) = 0-6, 5 M, bad suit
2♦(V) = Weak Two
2♥ = 3-10, Weak Two (5c suit possible in 1st and 3rd seats, always HHxxxx+ in 2nd seat)
2♠ = 3-10, Weak Two (5c suit possible in 1st and 3rd seats, always HHxxxx+ in 2nd seat)
2N = 3-10, both minors
3♣-3♠ = PRE. Virtually free style in 1st and 3rd seats, almost classical in 2nd seat.
3N = extreme minor 2-suiter
4m = PRE with bad suit
4M = practical
4N = Acol: asks about specific aces
5m = practical
5M = 11 tricks, lacks AK in M

Some stuff after 1♣

1♣-?:
1♦ = 5+, 4+ H
1♥ = 5+, 4+ S
1♠ = 0-4 / INV+, 5+ D / 12+ BAL, 3-S3-H4-D4-C
1N = 5-11, 3-S3-H
2♣ = 3-S3-H5+C, GF
2♦ = 3-8, 6+ M
2♥ = 5-11, 4+D5+C
2♠ = 5-11, 6+ C
2N = 5-7, 5+D5+C
3♣ = 0-4, 1s(6+C)
3♦-3♠ = good PRE (HHxxxxx)
4M = T/P opposite 11-13
4N = RKC
5m = T/P opposite 11-13


1♣-[1M-1]; ?:
1M = 17+ BAL
1♠(M=♥) = 4+ S
1N = 11-13 BAL, 3-S3-M
2♣ = 11-15, (5)6+ C
2♦ = 16+, 4+D5+C
2♥(M=♠) = 16+, 4+H5+C
2N = GF, 1s(6+C)
3♣ = INV, 1s(6+C)
3♦ = Mini-Splinter
3♥(M=♠) = Mini-Splinter


1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-?:
1♠ = 4-7, 4S5+H / 5+, 4S4H
1N = 5-7, 4M3-OM
2♣ = 5-7, 5+ M and, if M=♥, 3- S / 8+, 5+ M, neither BAL, 5+-5+ nor 5M044 [Edit, 16 May 2022]
2♦ = 8+, 4144 / 11+ BAL
2♥ = 8-11, 4M5+m
2♠ = 8-10 BAL, 4M3-OM
2N = 8+, 5+M5+C
3♣ = 8+, 5+M5+D
3♦ = 8+, 5+M5+OM
3♥ = 8+, 5M044


1♣-1♦; 1♥-1♠; ?:
1N = 17-19, 3-S3-H
2m = 19+, 3-S3-H4+m
2M = 17-18(19)
other = NAT, F2N

1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-1N; ?:
2♣ = F1, no slam interest
2♦ = relay, FG
2M = 4 M, 17-18(19)
2OM = 20+, 5 M, FG
2N = INV
3M = INV
4M = T/P

1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-1N; 2♦-?:
2♥ = 4M5+m
...2♠ = relay
......2N+ = Minor-canapé relay module
2♠ = 5-7 BAL
...2N = relay, denies M SUPP
......3♣+ = Major relay module
...3♣ = relay w/ M SUPP
......3♦+ = Major relay module
2N = 4M144


1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-2♣; ?:
2♦ = relay w/o M as trumps
2♥ = relay w/ M as trumps
2M = 2M4OM, 17-18 (???)


1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-2♣; 2♦-?:
2♥ = 4-7 (=> 2♠(M=♠) is passable)
2♠ = 8+, 6+ M
...2N = relay
......3♣ = 4 O
.........3♦ = relay
............3♥ = 4 OM
...............3♠ = sets OM as trumps
...............4♣+ = cue w/ M as trumps
............3♠ = 4 C
...............4♣ = sets C as trumps
............3N = 4 D
...............4♦ = sets D as trumps
......3♦+ = One-suited relay module (see below)
2N = 8+, 5M4C, no void (=> 3♣ = relay w/ numerical responses)
3♣ = 8+, 5M4D, no void (=> 3♦ = relay w/ numerical responses)
3♦ = 8+, 5M4OM2-3D (=> 3♥ = relay w/ numerical responses starting with 22)
3♥ = 8+, 5M413
3♠ = 8+, 5M404
3N = 8-11, 5M440
4♣+ = 12+, 5M440, slam system [not sure what I meant by "slam system" back then]

1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-2♣; 2♥-?:
as after 1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-2♣; 2♦, only one step higher


1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-2♥; ?:
2♠ = relay w/o M as trumps
2N = relay w/ M as trumps
3N = T/P


1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-2♥; 2♠(relay)-?:
2N+ = Minor-canapé module (see below)


1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-2♠; ?:
2N = relay w/o M as trumps (=> 3♣+ = Major relay module (see below))
3♣ = relay w/ M as trumps (=> 3♦+ = Major relay module (see below))
3OM = 5OM, FG


1♣-[1M-1]; [3x-1](x<M)-?:
3x/3M = sets x/M as trumps
...3N = void
...4x = extra length, no void
...3z/4w(z,w!=x) = 5M5x1z/w


1♣-1♠; ?:
1N = 11-21
2♣ = (5)6+ C
2♦ = 22+ BAL, 4+ M if 22-24
2M = 16+, 4M5+C
2N = 22-24 BAL, 3-S3-H


1♣-1♠; 1N-?:
2♣ = 5+ D, FG
2♦ = 0-4, 5+ H
2♥ = 0-4, 5+ S
2♠ = 12-14 BAL
2N = 15-17 BAL
3♣ = 5+D5+C, FG
3♦ = 18+, 2344
3♥ = 18+, 3244
3♠ = 18+, 3334
3N = 18-20, 3343
4♣+ = 21+, 3343


1♣-1♠; 1N-2♣; ?:
2♦ = 17-21 BAL
2M = 4M4+C, unBAL
2N = 11-13 BAL


1♣-1♠; 1N-2♠; ?:
2N = INV (11-12)
3♣ = relay
...3♦ = 2344
...3♥ = 3244
...3♠ = 3334
...3N = 3343
3♦/M = 4D/M5+C, FG
3N = T/P

1♣-1♠; 1N-2N; ?:
3♣+ = same as 3♣+ over 1♣-1♠; 1N-2♠


1♣-1♠; 2♣-?:
2♦-3♣ = 5+ D, GF


1♣-2♣; ?:
2♦ = 17+ BAL
...2M = NAT
...2N = BAL w/ distributed honours
...3♣ = good 5+ C, MIN
...3x = Splinter w/ C as trumps
2M = NAT
2N = 11-13 BAL
3♣ = unBAL MIN
3x = Mini-Splinter
3♦ = INV, 6+ D2-C


1♣-1♠; 2♦-?:
2♥ = 4 M
2♠ = 3-S3-H
2N+ = 5+ D, positive hand, NAT


1♣-1N; ?:
2♣ = F1, INV+
2♦/M = 4D/M5+C, NF!
2N = 1s(6+C), FG
3♣ = 1s(6+C), INV
3M = 5 M, FG


1♣-1N; 2♣-?:
2♦ = 5-8, 5+m4+Om / 9-11
2♥ = 6-8
2♠ = 6+ D
2N = 5(6) (=> 3♣=NF)


1♣-1N; 2♣-2♦; 2♥(relay)-?:
2♠ = 5+
2N+ = Balanced relay module (see below)


1♣-1N; 2♣-2♦; 2♥-2♠; 2N(relay)-?:
3♣ = 5-7 (=> 3♦=NF)
3♦ = 8-11, 6+ D
3♥ = 8-11, 1354
3♠ = 8-11, 2254
3N = 8-11, 3154


1♣-1N; 2♣-2♥; ?:
2♠ = relay
...2N+ = Balanced relay module (see below)
2N/3♣ = NAT INV


1♣-2♥; ?:
2♠ = relay
...2N = 8-11, 5+♦5+C
...3♣ = 5-7 (=> 3♦=T/P)
...3♦ = 8-11, 4D6+C
...3♥ = 8-11, 1345
...3♠ = 8-11, 2245
...3N = 8-11, 3145


1♣-2♠; ?:
2N = relay
...3♣ = 5-7
...3♦+ = One-suited relay module (see below)


1♣-2N; ?:
3♣ = T/P
3M = stopper or good suit, F4m
3N = T/P


1♣-4M; ?:
4M+1 = Kickback


Major suit relay module [This is (a translation of) the bad name we chose. Note that Teller is always balanced.]

Used in these situations:

• 1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-1N; 2♦-2♠; 2N-3♣+ [Responder has 5-7]
  
• 1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-2♠; 2N-3♣+ [Responder has 8-10]
  
• 1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-2♦; 2♥-2♠; 2N-3♣+ [Responder has 11-13]
  
• 1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-2♦; 2♥-3♣+ [Responder has 14+]

3♣ = 5M(332)
...3♦ = relay w/o M as trumps
......3♥+ = numeric responses
...3♥ = relay w/ M as trumps
......3♠+ = numeric responses
3♦ = 4M3OM(42)
...3♥
......3♠/N = numeric responses
3♥ = 4M333
3♠/N = 4M2OM, numeric


Balanced relay module [This is (a translation of) the bad name we chose. Note that the module doesn't cover balanced hands with a major.]

Used in these situations:

• 1♣-1N; 2♣-2♥; 2♠-2N+ [Responder has 6-8]
  
• 1♣-1N; 2♣-2♦; 2♥-2N+ [Responder has 9-11]
  
• 1N-2♣; 2♦-2♠; 2N+ [1N opening]

2N = 2S3H el. 3S3H(52)
...3♣ = relay w/o H as trumps
......3♦ = 3S3H(52)
.........3♥ = relay w/o S as trumps
............3♠/3N = numeric
.........3♠ = relay w/ S as trumps
............3N+ = numeric
......3♥-3N = numeric w/ 2S3H
...3♦ = relay w/ H as trumps
......3♥ = 3S3H(52)
.........3♠ = relay
............3N+ = numeric
3♣ = 3S2H
...3♦ = relay w/o S as trumps
......3♥-3N = numeric
...3♥ = relay w/ S as trumps
......3♠+ = numeric
3♦ = 3334
3♥ = 3343
3♠ = 2245
3N = 2254


One-suited relay module

Used in these situations:

• 1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-2♣; 2♦-2♠; 2N-3♦+ [Responder has 8+, 6+ M]
  
• 1♣-1N; 2♣-2♠; 2N-3♦+ [Responder has 8-11, 6 D]
  
• 1♣-2♠; 2N-3♦+ [Responder has 8-11, 6 C]

3♦ = 6x(322)
...3♥ = relay
......3♠-4♣ = numeric
3♥ = 6x(331)
...3♠ = relay
......3N-4♦ = numeric
3♠ = 7x(321)
...3N = relay
......4♣ = low singleton in lowest non-x suit
......4♦ = singleton in midmost non-x suit
......4♥ = singleton in highest non-x suit
3N = 7x222
4new = 7x0new33
4x = 8+x


Minor-canapé relay module

Used in these situations:

• 1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-1N; 2♦-2♥; 2♠-2N+ [Responder has 5-7]
  
• 1♣-[1M-1]; 1M-2♥; 2♠-2N+ [Responder has 8-11]

2N = 4M3-OM5+C, not 4M045
...3♣ = relay
......3♦ = 4M6+C
......3♥-3N = 4M5C, numeric
3♣ = 4M3-OM5D
...3♦ = relay
......3♥-3N = numeric
3♦ = 4M6+D
3♥ = 4M0OM45
3♠ = 4M0OM54


Transfer rebids over 1M-1N

1♥-1N; ?:
P = 11-13, either BAL or 5H3-D
2♣ = 5H4+D, not (exactly) INV if (exactly) 5-5 / 14+, 1534
...2♦ = PREF opposite 5H4D
......2♥ = 14-17, 1534
......2♠ = 3541, F1
......2N = 2542, INV
......3♣ = 1543, FG
......3♦ = 5H5D, FG
......3♥ = 1534, FG
......3♠ = 3541, FG
......3N = 2542, FG
...2♥ = PREF opposite 5H4D
...(...)
2♦ = 6+ H
...2♥ = < INV
......2♠ = 5+S6+H, NF
......2N = NAT INV
......3m = 4+ m, F1
......3♥ = GF, strong H
......3♠ = 5+S6+H, FG
......3N = suggestion
...(...)
2♥ = 14-17, either 2524 or 3514
2♠ = 16+, 4+S5+H
...2N = NF
...3m = suggestion
2N = INV
3m = INV, 5H5+m
3♥ = 18+, 2524
3N = GF, 5H5C


1♠-1N; ?:
P = 11-13, either BAL or 5S3-H3-D
2♣ = 5S4+D3-H, not (exactly) INV if (exactly) 5-5 / 14+, 5134
...2♦ = PREF opposite 5S4D
......2♥ = INV+, 3 H, NF
......2♠ = 14-17, 5134
......2N = 5S4D, INV
......3♣ = 5143, FG
......3♦ = 5S5D, FG
......3♥ = 5341, FG
......3♠ = 5134, FG
......3N = 5242, FG
...2♠ = PREF opposite 5S4D
...(...)
2♦ = 4+ H, not (exactly) INV if (exactly) 5-5, not 6+ S if INV+ / 14+, 5314
...2♥ = standard PREF opposite 5S4H
......2♠ = 14-17, 5314 (5305)
......2N = 5S4H, INV
......3♣ = 5413, FG
......3♦ = 5431, FG
......3♥ = GF, 5S5H
......3♠ = 5314, FG
......3N = 5422, FG
...2♠ = standard PREF opposite 5S4H
...(...)
2♥ = 6+ S, usually < 4 H if < INV
...2♠ = < INV
......2N = NAT INV
......3m/♥ = 4+m/H, F1
......3♠ = GF, strong S
......3N = suggestion
...(...)
2♠ = 14-17, 5224
...2N = NF
...3♣ = T/P
...3N = T/P
2N = INV
3m/♥ = INV, 5S5+m/H
3♠ = 18+, 5224
3N = GF, 5S5C

is part of a 2/1-like system I played in 1998/99. I had no access to the internet at the time and actually thought I might be the inventor transfer responses to (a not-too-unnatural) 1♣ and transfer rebids over 1M-1N.

But at a MP tournament, probably in 1999, I spoke with another Norwegian player who told me he had also come up with a version transfer responses to 1♣ (very close to "Dutch" T-Walsh, it turns out) and transfer rebids over 1M-1N, so it might have been a Zeitgeist thing. On the English-language Wikipedia page on T-Walsh there is a link to a pdf document (in Norwegian) describing (a possibly much more recent version of) his system.