[Echognome]

Scoring: MP

1♦ - (2♣) - 3♣ - (P)
3♠ - (P) - 4♦ - (P)
4♠ - (P) - 4NT - (P)
5♠ - (P) - ?

---

You are playing with an expert partner. You are playing a fairly basic natural system. After your partner opens 1♦, RHO buts in with 2♣. You bid 3♣ which is a sound raise to 3♦. And this carries on as follows. Your slam bidding is RKCB 1430. What do you do now?

What is partner's hand?

[luke warm]

sounds like he came alive with 6/5.. i'd like to know whether or not he's void in clubs or hearts.. 6♠ i guess... matchpoints

[mike777]

Good Grief! Call Bridge Police!....3c=Sound raise? This is not sound.....See Al Roth

[bearmum]

I will bid 6♠

[Echognome]

mike777, on Jun 3 2005, 08:00 PM, said:

Good Grief! Call Bridge Police!....3c=Sound raise? This is not sound.....See Al Roth

It's the only bid in the system we have to describe this hand at all, although it's minimum. 2♦ and 3♦ would both be weak. This hand is dead minimum for the 3♣ bid yes, but call the bridge police? Go ahead. I'll stand my ground. Else, I always have an insanity plea!

I'll wait for a couple more posts then post partner's actual hand.

Thanks for the responses thus far.

[mike777]

Echognome, on Jun 3 2005, 10:05 PM, said:

mike777, on Jun 3 2005, 08:00 PM, said:

Good Grief! Call Bridge Police!....3c=Sound raise? This is not sound.....See Al Roth

It's the only bid in the system we have to describe this hand at all, although it's minimum. 2♦ and 3♦ would both be weak. This hand is dead minimum for the 3♣ bid yes, but call the bridge police? Go ahead. I'll stand my ground. Else, I always have an insanity plea!

I'll wait for a couple more posts then post partner's actual hand.

Thanks for the responses thus far.

I bid 2D (less than invite), over 2S I rebid 4D. Now I have limited my hand and shown max hand with D values.

[adf]

What's with the 4NT bid? It seems to me that the choices are either 5♦, putting on the brakes, or 5♥, cooperating.

Anyhow, at the point in question, I'm going to bid 6♦ because of my heart holding--when partner has ♠AKQxx ♥xx ♦Qxxxxx or ♠KQTxx ♥xx ♦ATxxx, the spade slam is hopeless, but the diamond slam is cold, at least on a club lead.

Also, if partner has ♠AKQxx ♥x ♦ATxxxx ♣x, we're at less risk of going down after a club underlead and a diamond ruff. (Of course, we may also score our ♣J, but 1390 is still less than 1430.)

[HeartA]

Maybe I am not good at MP, I would bid 6D.

[flytoox]

HeartA, on Jun 4 2005, 07:03 AM, said:

Maybe I am not good at MP, I would bid 6D.

6D is Good MP. Why? NOt many would bid 3C as we did here. So not many would find slam. I think bid and make 6D will be good enough. 6S would be too greedy.

[Blofeld]

I read 3♠ and 4♠ as cue-bids, showing the top two spades. Partner also has a club control, or he wouldn't bid 4♠ after you've denied one with 4♦. As you have the necessary heart control, 4NT seems a reasonable cooperation bid. Now bid 6♦. I think you're missing one of the minor suit aces, but 6♦ should make.

I don't like to risk 6♠ or 6NT.

[Echognome]

Scoring: MP

1♦ - (2♣) - 3♣ - (P)
3♠ - (P) - 4♦ - (P)
4♠ - (P) - 4NT - (P)
5♠ - (P) - P! - (P)

---

I have to say I like the arguments that if you're going to bid a slam, you should bid it in diamonds. There may be some people in 4♠ (assuming the wheels haven't fallen off) and you will score well finding any slam otherwise.

There are a couple of points of interest. First, I was under the same impression as most of you that partner was showing a 65 hand. If you don't feel that, then explain how partner is able to show a 65 hand.

Second, partner's 3♠ could be interpreted as either (a) a natural suit, ( a stopper looking for no trump, or © an advanced cue-bid (when he bids on over 3NT). When he bids 4♠, I think we can rule out (.

Third, partner thought that when I bid blackwood, DIAMONDS were agreed. I felt that SPADES were agreed. (This was only the second time we played together to be fair.) So when partner showed 2 keycards with the Q of trumps, I know we're off 2 keycards. So unless I'm banking on a void in partner's hand, I didn't dare go past the last making contract. That didn't seem to work too well! Although interestingly enough, 4♠ makes if you let them win the first 3 club tricks discarding hearts in the north hand.

[Fluffy]

Echognome, on Jun 4 2005, 01:51 PM, said:

There are a couple of points of interest. First, I was under the same impression as most of you that partner was showing a 65 hand. If you don't feel that, then explain how partner is able to show a 65 hand.

By opening 1♠.


Even if you opened regularly 1♦ with 5-6 3♠ does not show 5 cards, and you should bid 4♥ instead of 4♦ IMO, partner will make it kinda easy for you after that.

[MickyB]

I think Matt was suggesting that the 4♠ bid should show 5♠6♦. I can understand opening the major if the hand is too weak to reverse, but surely it's right to open 1♦ if you aren't a minimum?

And yes, I have no idea what problem people have with 3♣ as a sound raise - it shows a limit raise or better, a direct 3♦ bid would be weaker...the only people who wouldn't bid 3♣ on this hand are the ones who still play 3♦ as limit. I do agree that there's no point worrying about a few MPs between 6♦ and 6♠, should they both make.

[mike777]

MickyB, on Jun 5 2005, 03:56 AM, said:

And yes, I have no idea what problem people have with 3♣ as a sound raise - it shows a limit raise or better, a direct 3♦ bid would be weaker...the only people who wouldn't bid 3♣ on this hand are the ones who still play 3♦ as limit. 

This hand is not a limit raise. It is not close to a "SOUND" limit raise in a minor suit. I realize I have not played bridge in many years but if this "sound" Good Grief. This is a very ratty 10 hcp. With unsupported jacks, an Ace in your short suit and terrible 5332 shape. I bid "SOUND" weak 2D and then 4D as I mentioned before over 2S rebid by partner.

[MickyB]

One of your jacks is abley supported by a nine and the fifth diamond is worth something. Although it may come down to a system difference - if you bid 2♦ or 3♦, opener will pass if he has a flat 15 or 16 playing Acol (which Gnome was).

[paulg]

I'm not sure what the value of knowing that partner may have 5-6 shape when it is clear that diamonds will be trumps - you have denied interest in spades by not doubling originally and by bidding 4♦, so it seems clear that 4♠ is a cue bid.

Trying to mastermind into 5-2/5-3/4-3 fits when you have a 5-4/6-5 fit is just making life far too difficult

Paul

[Echognome]

Cardsharp - Agree with you at IMPs, not at MPs.