[luis]

I held that nightmarish hand last night....

LHO opens 4d (preempt), pd bids 4h, RHO passes.
Do you bid? What? Why?

[pbleighton]

Tough one. If I had one more trump, I would definitely cue bid the diamond void.

Partner may have something like

x-AKJ10xxx-xx-KJx

I'm feeling lucky today. 5D anyway.

[Free]

Why don't you let us know who's vulnerable and who isn't? If opponents are not, and we are, I'd try and cue-bid D, but if they are V and we are not, I'll pass. Pre-emptive openings depend on vulnerability...

[luis]

Nobody vulnerable.

[hrothgar]

Quote

I held that nightmarish hand last night....

LHO opens 4d (preempt), pd bids 4h, RHO passes.
Do you bid? What? Why?

I'm going to bid 4S
This SHOULD be a cue bid in support of Hearts

[inquiry]

Yuck... this is why they preempt, you have a very difficult decision. 4H maybe the limit, or you maybe laydown for 7 clubs (give partner something like S-KQ H-AK9xx D-xxx C-AKx).

Partner probably was counting on me for a smattering of values... I just hope I have enough "extra" for my slam try. I agree with Richard that 4S is forcing, but I play it as a fit jump, not so much a cue-bid. The problem with 4S is that it keeps you from your most likely slam/grand slam, which is in clubs.

So while both 5D or 4S bid are forcing, they will forever lose the club suit. Since partner didn't double, it is likely (but not assured) that he doesn't have a spade fit. But I guess if he has two suits, the second is clubs. So, as ugly as it is, I will bid 5 CLUBS as a fit non-jump. This does not deny a spade control. Since there is no room between 5D and 5H, partner can bid 5D not as a cue-bid but as a general slam try (I use the no-room in the end bids as game and slam try when there is no more bidding room). If partner can try for slam with me looking at SPADE ACE and diamond void, I know we are going slamming. I just don't know where. If he bids 5H, I give. If he bids 6 Clubs, I am happy to have made it to slam. If he bids 5NT, I will bid 6C.

Ben

BTW, I am certain 5C will not be a popular choice.... because it is probably so wrong..... :-)

[mishovnbg]

My method of competitive bidding include normally reconstruction of the board before to take a decision. I call it "guessing over coffee sediment", hehe. Luis may be remeber about our little guessing/science debate 8).

Distribution:
DI: LHO - 8 ( with 9 - 5, with 7 - 3 ), me - 0, RHO- 2 or less ( with 3 can raise ), p - 3+
HE: P - 6 ( 5 is not enough for 4 level), me - 2, LHO - 1 ( in our fit I expect shortness ), RHO - 4
SP: P - 3- ( didnt bid take out ), me - 5, LHO- 2-, RHO - 3+
CL: remain

HCP:

DI: LHO KJ109xxxx ( with better suit - 3DI), p - Axx ( K is not valuable for him), RHO - Qx, me - void

HE: LHO - x (short), p - AJ109xx, RHO - Kxxx ( didnt raise, long), me - Qx
CL: LHO - xx, p - A ( overcall), RHO - KJxx ( didnt dbl), me - Q109xxx
SP ( remain): LHO - xx, p - KQx, RHO - xxx, me - AJ10xx

Expected deal:

KQx
AJ109xx
Axx
A
xx xxx
x Kxxx
KJ109xxxx Qx
xx KJxx

AJ10xx
Qx
-
Q109xxx

Bidding ( for clarification to p ;D ):

4DI - 4HE - p - 4SP (1)
p - 5CL(2) - p(dbl) - 6DI(3)
p(dbl) - final decision ( 6SP with expected hand )

1. Cue bid or nat, forcing
2. Odd KC, cue CL
3. Grand slam try with void DI, pickup slam ( didnt bid it directly )

Misho

[hrothgar]

Question:

If 5C is a fit non-jump, then shouldn't 4S be as well?
If we have a slam outside of Hearts, the relative strength of my Black suits would seem to suggest looking for slam in Spades rather than Clubs.

I have nothing wrong with the fit non-jump treatment, however, I think that the Club suit is too weak to introduce. Equally significantly, my Spades are sitting over the partner of the preempter, which I consider to be a useful thing.

Richard

[Who missed an obvious fit non-jump just last week]

[inquiry]

yes richard, i would play 4S as fit non jump too... Problem with 4S is if partner bids 5C.... is this a cue-bid, a second suit? I play as second suit. There is no way to suggest clubs after that. Now, Misho has drawn up a hand where you could play 6S, but on his hand, 6H is just as good... but when the hand might play better in clubs the only way to get there is to bid em....

Ben

[luis]

Ok now the revelation:

Pd held:
Qx, AJTxxx, A, AKxx

The guy that opened 4d held 9 diamonds, his pd held 3 and decided to pass (can't argue with success).
I passed 4h and we were cold for 7c. The spade finesse is on as you can expect and the heart finesse (not needed in 7c) was also on in case you want to play 7h. I don't know if reaching a grand slam is easy but we should have played 6. I thought for about 4 minutes over 4h before passing, I knew I had to do something but couldn't figure out a solid development for my hand. Are 4s and 5c cuebids in support for hearts? Why not? Or are they solid suits with a heart missfit (singleton or void). Is 5d a cuebid or exclusion RKCB in hearts. What is pd expected to do over 4s/5c/5d ? Everything was so unclear that I decided to take the sure plus in 4h. Wrong!

[mishovnbg]

Hi Luis! If you all time make right decisions, soon you will stop play Bridge - will be bored to death! Was so easy for us, far from battle and real bridge to invent bids... I know, know... Partner, team expect more... :'( Next time will be better, i am sure!
Misho