[euclidz]

Many Bridge players play several times a week at different Bridge Clubs. News report suggest that this virus can live on dry surfaces for up to 4 days. The majority of Bridge players are ‘older’. It is inevitable that someone at one of those Clubs is going to have Coronavirus and leave it on the cards and those cards then pass round the room for others to pick up the virus. I have suggested to our Club committee that we close down until after it's over. The question I posed is - do we close now or wait until 'the horse has bolted'?

What is your Club doing?

Clearly this virus is going to spread at different rates in different countries for all manner of reasons.

[pescetom]

I don't see that the rate of spread changes much. When are you going to stop? When the first bridge player in UK is positive? The first in your county? The first in your club?

It seems a very obvious choice to me. The authorities will make it for you soon enough anyway.

[sfi]

euclidz, on 2020-March-10, 02:23, said:

What is your Club doing?

Providing hand sanitiser and following official health authority advice. Both of which seem like sensible approaches.

[hrothgar]

I think that its clear that governments are going to need to step in and start shutting down clubs

If you want to see why, take a look at the following thread

https://bridgewinner...he-virus/#new_1

Which contains quotes like the following:

Quote

We are planning on sending out the article from the early 2000 that says
bridge boosts the immune system and connect the dots that their immune
system is stronger than the everyday person to which the media is
speaking. So keep playing bridge!

Quote

I am taking a group of 56 on a Transatlantic cruise end of April. The State Department
just advised people to not go on cruise ships. Our Health Minister in Canada just did
the same. My friend is aboard the same ship (on which we are going) right now.
They change decks of cards daily.

[euclidz]

pescetom, on 2020-March-10, 03:07, said:

It seems a very obvious choice to me. The authorities will make it for you soon enough anyway.

In Italy seats in restaurants must be 1 metre apart

France has banned group gathering of more than 1000 (not sure what that's going to do)!

Sporting events have banned handshakes.

What advice would these Governments give to a group of people 20, 30, 40 people who regularly gather together, sitting next to each other almost shoulder to shoulder, coughing into their hands or scratching their nose, then touching playing cards and then passing those cards around each other and then going on the next day to another group of 20,30, 40 people and doing the same thing?

[euclidz]

The Olymic committee are looking at how to manage the relay race and that's just one baton. I wonder that they would do if EBU had won its claim to have Bridge as an Olympic sport?

[pescetom]

euclidz, on 2020-March-10, 06:52, said:

What advice would these Governments give to a group of people 20, 30, 40 people who regularly gather together, sitting next to each other almost shoulder to shoulder, coughing into their hands or scratching their nose, then touching playing cards and then passing those cards around each other and then going on the next day to another group of 20,30, 40 people and doing the same thing?

When things get tough Governments stop giving advice and start giving orders, if necessary.

A fortnight ago when the initial ban at Italian regional level expired there was a conference call between club presidents to discuss what to do, they enthusiastically decided to start playing again! I couldn't believe it. Fortunately the players had more sense than the presidents and nobody turned up at clubs. Two days later first the Federation and then the Government said game over.

[FelicityR]

A recent report from China shows that 80% of coronavirus cases are mild. We are all being drawn in by mass media hysteria and really damaging journalism that is frankly obscene. I actually loathe the Independent newspaper at the moment and its negativity about covid-19.

Yes, as I have said before, we shouldn't treat this contagion lightly. But, in the same breath I say that more people are killed on a daily basis on our roads than die from coronavirus in the UK. That's a fact.

For people to stop their lives wholly and go into some form of self-isolation so that they are less likely to pick up coronavirus is frankly absurd. Think of terrorism and terrorist bombs. If we give in to their threats and do not carry on with daily life, then the enemy has won. It's the same with covid-19.

What we all need to do is improve our hygiene regimens, and for people with health problems to think about in what environment they are going to. I think the last place you would pick up the coronavirus would be in a bridge club, except if a number of members have come back from a cruise or a foreign holiday.

[cherdano]

Have a look at this thread Felicity: https://twitter.com/...933830893883393
Hope you enjoy the read. Look forward to your rationalisation of why you should ignore it.

[hrothgar]

FelicityR, on 2020-March-10, 09:25, said:

A recent report from China shows that 80% of coronavirus cases are mild.

For the record: the term "mild" has a specific mean

If you're not hospitalized, you have a "mild" case.
This includes pretty severe pneumonia.

If you are hospitalized, but not on an oxygen concentrator / respirator, its "severe"

[hrothgar]

FelicityR, on 2020-March-10, 09:25, said:

For people to stop their lives wholly and go into some form of self-isolation so that they are less likely to pick up coronavirus is frankly absurd. Think of terrorism and terrorist bombs. If we give in to their threats and do not carry on with daily life, then the enemy has won. It's the same with covid-19.

This is one of the stupidest statements that I have yet seen in most any discussion about coronavirus

That's a real accomplishment...
Be proud of yourself

[KingCovert]

hrothgar, on 2020-March-10, 09:43, said:

This is one of the stupidest statements that I have yet seen in most any discussion about coronavirus

That's a real accomplishment...
Be proud of yourself

I could craft some snarky post about how this is the most immature statement that I've ever seen in any discussion on this bridge forum, but, really...? I'm not sure what you were hoping to achieve with this post, but, I can assure you that you either failed, or succeeded in being an ass.

The Coronavirus is less deadly than many other common illnesses out there, Felicity is right about that. That being said, it is particularly contagious, and less deadly * more contagious quite possibly equates to more catastrophic. We should exercise caution, but shutting down the whole world is a bit too doomsday for a rational person.

You're a bridge player, I'm sure you have some mathematical faculties, I'd wager that you can appreciate the considerations at hand here. This is mostly a rather sensitive issue in the bridge community due to its advanced age, and the fact that people at that age are at an increased risk of a bad outcome. For my demographic, the risk is incredibly low. It's 0.2%. And it's 0.4% (or better) for all demographics under 50. This all assumes that you contract it, of course.

Now, the risk is much higher for people over 50. This is a large portion of the bridge demographic. It's a serious concern in the bridge community. This is sensible. But, I think you should do more research...

[FelicityR]

hrothgar, on 2020-March-10, 09:43, said:

This is one of the stupidest statements that I have yet seen in most any discussion about coronavirus

That's a real accomplishment...
Be proud of yourself

What I am saying, hrothgar, is as humans we cannot adopt a nuclear bunker policy and hope that in six months time we can emerge into the wide world and hope coronavirus is gone. Life has to go on. Even if there are certain restrictions made on our movements.

In all the posts I have written about coronavirus on here, I have never said that it should be taken lightly, or for the medical profession to bury their necks in the sand. Like Donald Trump.

Even our Queen in this country has said "Keep Calm and Carry On". This phrase was used during WW2 and recently has been resurrected. What can we do other than "Keep Calm and Carry On"?

Various medical professionals and the government are proffering advice on a daily basis. What annoys me wholesale is how the media through their sheer ignorance are making matters worse. The way coronavirus is being portrayed is like some Doomsday scenario, and whilst it is a major contagion, the negativity of the journalism is making matters worse, I feel.

We should all adhere to the recommendations that both the NHS, WHO and various governments around the world are making, but that is not going to stop me waking up tomorrow morning, walking the dog, going to my local store, and maybe playing bridge at a bridge club in the afternoon.

Only when I am told to stop doing these things will I actually do so.

And yes, I am being as vigilant as the next person, as all of us are trying to do, but I am "Keeping Calm and Carrying On." Just like our wonderful Queen.

[Winstonm]

FelicityR, on 2020-March-10, 10:08, said:

What I am saying, hrothgar, is as humans we cannot adopt a nuclear bunker policy and hope that in six months time we can emerge into the wide world and hope coronavirus is gone. Life has to go on. Even if there are certain restrictions made on our movements.

In all the posts I have written about coronavirus on here, I have never said that it should be taken lightly, or for the medical profession to bury their necks in the sand. Like Donald Trump.

Even our Queen in this country has said "Keep Calm and Carry On". This phrase was used during WW2 and recently has been resurrected. What can we do other than "Keep Calm and Carry On"?

Various medical professionals and the government are proffering advice on a daily basis. What annoys me wholesale is how the media through their sheer ignorance are making matters worse. The way coronavirus is being portrayed is like some Doomsday scenario, and whilst it is a major contagion, the negativity of the journalism is making matters worse, I feel.

We should all adhere to the recommendations that both the NHS, WHO and various governments around the world are making, but that is not going to stop me waking up tomorrow morning, walking the dog, going to my local store, and maybe playing bridge at a bridge club in the afternoon.

Only when I am told to stop doing these things will I actually do so.

And yes, I am being as vigilant as the next person, as all of us are trying to do, but I am "Keeping Calm and Carrying On." Just like our wonderful Queen.

Felicity, here is a non-mainstream information source that explains things about the Covid-19 virus you probably do not know. Perhaps after reading you will understand what the big deal is.

PS: It is also difficult to understand against whom you rail as "media". My understanding is that the UK has some pretty terrible daily papers that surely are not worth reading. Is that who you mean? I wonder, because the tone of your posts makes it sound more like a displeasure with factual information which does not fit your worldview.

[FelicityR]

Winstonm, on 2020-March-10, 13:43, said:

Felicity, here is a non-mainstream information source that explains things about the Covid-19 virus you probably do not know. Perhaps after reading you will understand what the big deal is.

PS: It is also difficult to understand against whom you rail as "media". My understanding is that the UK has some pretty terrible daily papers that surely are not worth reading. Is that who you mean? I wonder, because the tone of your posts makes it sound more like a displeasure with factual information which does not fit your worldview.

Thank you for that interesting article, Winston. Sadly, the British press generally sensationalise everything these days without having good quality source material that this article represents.

I have no problem with factual information reported in newspapers, but I get tired of all the 'spin' and hyperbole they inject into an article just so it is read.

I agree, having read this article (which was only published yesterday) that coronavirus represents a serious challenge to all nations. I am a former NHS (National Health Service) nurse with many years experience, so understand fully the implications contained in this article.

I am aware (as far as I know) that transmission of viruses through breathing contaminated air has only been recently identified in the last few years. Previously, it was thought that viruses were spread by contact, or inhaling viral particles from an infected person who has coughed or sneezed.

But, even given this information, the most important way of keeping this infection under control, beyond distancing yourself from other people, is good personal hygiene. Washing your hands frequently, etc. I still shudder when I see people sneeze into their hands and then wipe them on their clothes.

[Cyberyeti]

Winstonm, on 2020-March-10, 13:43, said:

Felicity, here is a non-mainstream information source that explains things about the Covid-19 virus you probably do not know. Perhaps after reading you will understand what the big deal is.

PS: It is also difficult to understand against whom you rail as "media". My understanding is that the UK has some pretty terrible daily papers that surely are not worth reading. Is that who you mean? I wonder, because the tone of your posts makes it sound more like a displeasure with factual information which does not fit your worldview.

BBC at least Radio 5 live have said most of this, they're very good at getting actual experts on.

[kenberg]

I play bridge, I am a retired college prof, my wife, also retired, teaches yoga classes and I often attend. I want to fit all of these things together in a reply.
I am scheduled to play at the club Friday, I was in at the U for a talk last Thursday, I was at a yoga class yesterday.
When I was at the U Thursday there was discussion about what to do if the decision was to close the U of MD. I gather that it has been decided to do so.Next week is spring break there will be classes for the rest of this week, then the students will take online classes. Other colleges, some of them, are making similar choices. See https://www.washingt...e96f_story.html
Of course this got me to thinking: They are cancelling in-person college classes but I am off to yoga and then to bridge? Maybe I need to rethink this?

Here in Maryland, population about six million, we have nine confirmed cases. Seems like a drop in the bucket but but but. There are places that had single digit confirmed cases and then, a week or so later, had a good many more. MOst likely these "good many more" had it already when the confirmed cases were single digit, it takes a while to show up.

Next point: Some areas of the world have been a good deal more successful than others in controlling this. I expect that has something to with choices, both individual choices and choices made by health and government bodies.

People often loosely say that something grew exponentially when all they really mean is that it grew very fast. But for something like this, at least in the early stages and if left on its own, exponential growth is pretty accurate for describing the growth.Couple that with the fact that it is largely hidden for a period of maybe a couple of weeks before symptoms appear, and there is some serious potential

On these threads and elsewhere, people speak of panic. I think it is unlikely that the people who chose to close these universities were people who read a couple of stories in the newspaper and then just completely lost any sense. I exoect they are sensible people who had sensible conversations with experts and then reached this conclusion.

I can understand the mathematics of a paper written on viral transmission. But that only goes so far, I would not at all say that qualifies me to have much more of an informed opinion than anyone else. Every case is different, there is a lot we do not yet know, and we need people with extensive expertise giving this matter their full time attention. And then we need to listen to what they say.

This could overwhelm the system, this could die out. .Which way it goes will very much depend on choices that are made.

[fromageGB]

Let me back Felicity. I am 70, I have a long-term lung condition, and now that I have stopped rock climbing, paragliding and skiing, all of which were likely to kill me, I am now most likely to die of pneumonia. Until then I will continue to enjoy living.

One of my clubs is trying to get hand sanitisers (aka gold dust), I am washing my hands at the club before I leave, and I think these are reasonable precautions. Probably ineffective, because I expect you are more likely to get it being breathed on by someone in the weeks of contagion before symptoms, but reasonable. What is the risk quantitatively? Miniscule. As the situations develops I may in the future be wearing rubber gloves or breathing round the edges of a scarf, but I fear authorities may close things down before then. Life is always a risk, and I am happy to accept it.

[kenberg]

fromageGB, on 2020-March-11, 06:19, said:

Let me back Felicity. I am 70, I have a long-term lung condition, and now that I have stopped rock climbing, paragliding and skiing, all of which were likely to kill me, I am now most likely to die of pneumonia. Until then I will continue to enjoy living.

One of my clubs is trying to get hand sanitisers (aka gold dust), I am washing my hands at the club before I leave, and I think these are reasonable precautions. Probably ineffective, because I expect you are more likely to get it being breathed on by someone in the weeks of contagion before symptoms, but reasonable. What is the risk quantitatively? Miniscule. As the situations develops I may in the future be wearing rubber gloves or breathing round the edges of a scarf, but I fear authorities may close things down before then. Life is always a risk, and I am happy to accept it.

I understand what you are saying. As I mentioned, I am now re-thinking matters a bit, which means that I am uncertain where I will land. The fact that sensible people who have thought about this have decided that closing the universities (some of them) gives me pause. I do think that this could go either way. As I understand it, Hong Kong and Singapore have had considerable success, we all know Italy has been overwhelmed. Part of my thinking is that nobody is suggesting that I, or you, give up bridge permanently. We could back off of this, and other interactions, for a while and see which way this jumps.

I don't regard the answer as clear cut, so I am not really contesting your choice.

I'm 81, but actually that's a relatively minor part of my thinking. It seems there are reasons all of us might give this some care.

[pescetom]

fromageGB, on 2020-March-11, 06:19, said:

Let me back Felicity. I am 70, I have a long-term lung condition, and now that I have stopped rock climbing, paragliding and skiing, all of which were likely to kill me, I am now most likely to die of pneumonia. Until then I will continue to enjoy living.

It seems to me that you are still in the initial stage of rejection, whereas Ken is in the intermediate stage of doubt. Those of us who are already in the third stage of acceptance (when if you find yourself on the street for some good reason you automatically cross the road to avoid another person) have been through the first two stages and can understand your reactions. We too were appalled at the idea of stopping playing bridge. Then we had doubts if it was a good idea, then we were relieved we had not played. Now we find the idea simply crazy and face bigger and harder questions. Felicity, you were a nurse. Yesterday according to the radio the medics were unable to tube up an 80 year old woman with severe bronchitis because all such equipment was already in use. She died after 5 hours. I think you can imagine how the medical staff must feel in such a situation and what pressure they are under. One in six is ill themselves. And the number of sick continue to double every three days, in Italy as in France and Spain which are basically just two weeks behind. The UK has more chance to avoid the same situation but will have to learn fast and take drastic measures, not play cards.