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How will this hands be bid ?

#21 User is offline   mtn1ms 

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Posted 2019-April-16, 19:42

Our 1♦ shows 5+♦ or 444 with 1♣ so we would open this 1♦ and respond 3♣ (showing limit raise in ♦). The bid would then go 3♥ (cue - A or K or singleton or void) 3♠ (cue - A or K or singleton or void) showing interest in 3N or 5♦. Opener would then bid 4♣ (cue - A or K or singleton or void) and responder would cue 4♥. Opener would cue 4♠ and with his 2 doubletons, knowing we have 1st and 2nd round control of ♠and♥ and a control in ♣ responder would bid 6♦. Without the A♥ responder would bid 4♦ and opener would bid 5♦.

So our bidding would be:
1♦-3♣
3♥-3♠
4♣-4♥
4♠-6♦

Without interest or without an available cue over 3♥ responder could bid 5♦ or 3N with suitable hand.
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#22 User is offline   mtn1ms 

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Posted 2019-April-16, 19:42

Our 1♦ shows 5+♦ or 444 with 1♣ so we would open this 1♦ and respond 3♣ (showing limit raise in ♦). The bid would then go 3♥ (cue - A or K or singleton or void) 3♠ (cue - A or K or singleton or void) showing interest in 3N or 5♦. Opener would then bid 4♣ (cue - A or K or singleton or void) and responder would cue 4♥. Opener would cue 4♠ and with his 2 doubletons, knowing we have 1st and 2nd round control of ♠and♥ and a control in ♣ responder would bid 6♦. Without the A♥ responder would bid 4♦ and opener would bid 5♦.

So our bidding would be:
1♦-3♣
3♥-3♠
4♣-4♥
4♠-6♦

Without interest or without an available cue over 3♥ responder could bid 5♦ or 3N with suitable hand.
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#23 User is offline   GrahamJson 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 11:32

With my regular partner we play a jump to 3NT on the second round as showing a shortage in responder’s suit, so the bidding could go 1D-2C-3NT. It might then continue 4D- cue bids...-6D. (The 3NT bid also shows a good suit and good values).

On the other hand it’s a borderline 2C bid and if responder bids 1NT all roads lead to 3NT.
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#24 User is offline   mrt2000 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 12:37

View Postnige1, on 2019-April-15, 11:55, said:


MsJeniffer's deal is of the kind that authorities might flag in an effort to diagnose and prosecute collusive cheating.
Bidding double-dummy, cheats might well reach 6♦
Admittedly, rarely, a lucky innocent pair might also bid and make the slam.
But evidence of consistent success on such flagged deals, would corroborate cheating suspicions.



I have seldom heard such nonsense in all my life. Although I admit that both hands have to take very optimistic views of their holdings it is a million miles away from anything even remotely close to cheating. My partner of choice and I, playing 2/1 GF, could bid the hands as follows:
1♦ - 1NT
3♦ - 3♥ (Cue bid agreeing ♦)
3♠ (Q) - 4♦ (No ♣ control)
4♥ (Q) - 4♠ (Q)
6♦ - P

Not so hard really was it?
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#25 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 13:16

View Postmrt2000, on 2019-April-17, 12:37, said:

I have seldom heard such nonsense in all my life. Although I admit that both hands have to take very optimistic views of their holdings it is a million miles away from anything even remotely close to cheating. My partner of choice and I, playing 2/1 GF, could bid the hands as follows:
1♦ - 1NT
3♦ - 3♥ (Cue bid agreeing ♦)
3♠ (Q) - 4♦ (No ♣ control)
4♥ (Q) - 4♠ (Q)
6♦ - P

Not so hard really was it?


It's hard because at MPs if partner doesn't have a heart cue or has 2 losing or potentially losing clubs, you may struggle to get out in a number of NT you can make, and end up playing 5♦ for a bottom once you blast past 3N. There are lots of variances from the actual hands which make the slam bad with the same auction
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#26 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 13:53

View Postmrt2000, on 2019-April-17, 12:37, said:

I have seldom heard such nonsense in all my life. Although I admit that both hands have to take very optimistic views of their holdings it is a million miles away from anything even remotely close to cheating. My partner of choice and I, playing 2/1 GF, could bid the hands as follows:
1♦ - 1NT
3♦ - 3♥ (Cue bid agreeing ♦)
3♠ (Q) - 4♦ (No ♣ control)
4♥ (Q) - 4♠ (Q)
6♦ - P

Not so hard really was it?


How would your auction differ if North had one more card in either major?
Alderaan delenda est
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#27 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 14:01

View Postmrt2000, on 2019-April-17, 12:37, said:

I have seldom heard such nonsense in all my life. Although I admit that both hands have to take very optimistic views of their holdings it is a million miles away from anything even remotely close to cheating. My partner of choice and I, playing 2/1 GF, could bid the hands as follows:
1♦ - 1NT
3♦ - 3♥ (Cue bid agreeing ♦)
3♠ (Q) - 4♦ (No ♣ control)
4♥ (Q) - 4♠ (Q)
6♦ - P

Not so hard really was it?


Great bidding looking at both hands. If I look at all 4 hands, I can also bid to contracts that depend on very lucky breaks, and avoid contracts that go down on bad or awful breaks.
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#28 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 14:03

View Postmrt2000, on 2019-April-17, 12:37, said:

I have seldom heard such nonsense in all my life. Although I admit that both hands have to take very optimistic views of their holdings it is a million miles away from anything even remotely close to cheating. My partner of choice and I, playing 2/1 GF, could bid the hands as follows:
1♦ - 1NT
3♦ - 3♥ (Cue bid agreeing ♦)
3♠ (Q) - 4♦ (No ♣ control)
4♥ (Q) - 4♠ (Q)
6♦ - P

Not so hard really was it?

No, it's not so hard if opps' silence convinces North that South has 0-1 clubs and not e.g. ♣Kx. But North might feel more confident about that after

1♦-1N (NAT unBAL or 20-22 BAL \\ 0-12, NAT)
2♦-2♠ ("16-18"*, any \\ GF relay)
2N-3♣ (4+ H or 1-suited \\ relay)
3♦-.... (1-suited \\ ---)

in my system: Here are are 100 random deals consistent with South's bidding (modulo finer points of hand evaluation) and North having the above hand:

Spoiler

Now take a look at the EW cards on the deals where South has 2-3 clubs. Don't you think opps would interfere over 1♦ or 1N on the vast majority of those deals?

Btw, I believe my auction at IMPs would continue

....-3♥ (--- \\ relay)
4♦-4♥ (3361 \\ key card ask with diamonds agreed)
4♠-4N (even # of key cards \\ trump Q ask)
5N-6♦ (trump Q, ♥K, ♠K, no ♥Q \\ contract)
P.

It's harder at MPs, of course, since belly-landing in 5♦ after e.g.

....-4N (--- \\ trump Q ask)
5♣-.... (no trump Q \\ ---)

is not really an option.

* or more precisely: meets the rule of 25 (like the unbalanced part of a Precision 1♣ opening), but not the rule of 28
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#29 User is offline   Lorneg 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 14:49

test
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#30 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 15:01

Playing 2/1 with strong NT, 5cM, I think

1 ♦ - 1 NT
3 ♦ - 3 NT

would be most probable.

Playing K-S (2/1, weak NT, 5cM), after 1 ♦, responder has a choice of 2 bids -- 2 C which isn't a GF or 2 NT. 1 NT is defined as only 5-8 in this system to provide an escape with a poor hand with no 4cM opposite a "strong NT" type hand. Whichever response is chosen again probably leads to 3 NT at MPS.

Probing for a slam that makes because of a perfect mesh of the hands might be an academic exercise, but probably isn't going to happen in the real world.
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