[lamford]

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IMPs converted to VPs

This was a wild last board (at our table) in the London Super League last night. South's double of 5S was very slow, and North passed quickly and led the queen of clubs, but before East had passed. I was East, and, as I was not intending to redouble, thought it would be wrong to call the director and state that a card had been prematurely led and that I now wished to redouble. One worry was that I might be hoisted on my own petard, and my partner would ban a club lead, and the defence would cash three hearts. This always happens to the Secretary Bird, of course, but is a little unlikely here.

Without the infraction, I would not have redoubled, as either opponent might bid 6♦, but here I was on pretty safe ground as South was now silenced and North still constrained by the UI of the slow double, although he could have had no LA to pulling 5S redoubled to 6D which might, on another layout, only be one off. I felt that claiming that I was about to redouble was not "complying with the lawful procedures and ethical standards set out in these laws." What do readers think, and can North pull a redouble if it is made?

https://app.pianola....5/Travellers/12 gives the frequencies.

[steve2005]

North led out of turn as is very common in this type of situation. Often scooping up the bidding cards and putting them away too.
Of course you can call the director on lead out of turn and you can bid. But Why? That you didnt get the top you usually would isn't a reason.

[blackshoe]

I'm not sure I understand the "South is now silenced" comment. Which law?

[lamford]

From recollection 24B honour card or card led prematurely. And SB would be looking for a second bite of the cherry under 74C if the enforced pass damaged the non-offenders ...

(At backgammon tonight so above from memory so sorry if wrong)

[lamford]

steve2005, on 2019-February-14, 13:58, said:

North led out of turn as is very common in this type of situation. Often scooping up the bidding cards and putting them away too.
Of course you can call the director on lead out of turn and you can bid. But Why? That you didnt get the top you usually would isn't a reason.

North didn't lead out of turn. He led during the auction.

[weejonnie]

Well the laws state

24B. Single Card of Honour Rank or Card Prematurely Led
If it is a single card of honour rank or is any card prematurely led, offender’s partner must pass
when next it is his turn to call (see Law 72C when a pass damages the non‐offending side).

and although not quite the same

"10C3. When these Laws provide the innocent side with an option after an irregularity committed
by an opponent, it is appropriate to select the most advantageous action."

I don't even know why you have ethical problems. The auction wasn't over. You are fully entitled to take into account mistakes (or infractions) that the opponents make and, as a result, change the call you would have made for another.

(You should regard any call you make as being a function of your hand and the state of the game. The state changed with the premature lead - ergo your function generates a different call.)

Should north be permitted to escape to 6♦?

All things being considered, I think he should. The redouble indicates that the opposition have got unexpected strength and/ or distribution (unless bluffing). This is AI, and without any surprises it must switch the odds enormousely against standing the XX. (usual caveat about polling).

[steve2005]

lamford, on 2019-February-14, 16:13, said:

North didn't lead out of turn. He led during the auction.

North lead before auction over. Call it lead out of turn or premature whatever

[blackshoe]

It's a premature lead during the auction. As has been said, Law 24B governs, and leader's partner must pass at his next turn. If he gets more chances to call, he can do what he wants (subject to the UI laws when applicable).

The club queen remains on the table throughout the auction. If East does not pass, South must pass, and when it gets to North he can do what he wants (again, subject to the UI laws when applicable). If East passes, the auction is over. If NS end up declaring, the ♣Q goes back in North's hand. If NS end up defending, the ♣Q is a major penalty card, and if North is on lead he must lead it. If S is on lead, East (who will be declarer) has the usual options.

I agree with Weejonnie on the ethics question. As to whether North is allowed to escape to 6♦ if East redoubles, I would say yes. If EW then bid their 18 point Grand Slam, so be it.

[sanst]

lamford, on 2019-February-14, 10:19, said:

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One worry was that I might be hoisted on my own petard, and my partner would ban a club lead, and the defence would cash three hearts.

The queen becomes a MPC but the declarer can’t ban a lead from the hand with such a card, so you shouldn’t have worried about that.

[lamford]

sanst, on 2019-February-15, 04:22, said:

The queen becomes a MPC but the declarer can’t ban a lead from the hand with such a card, so you shouldn’t have worried about that.

Yes I noticed that; unless my call changes the declarer, when there would be lead restrictions. The main worry is that North would bid 6D, and I would clearly lead a top club against that, and now have to find the heart ruff to beat it 3 for 800 - so that is worse than the 850 I had!

I am unsure whether I would allow the run after the redouble and would poll.

[pescetom]

blackshoe, on 2019-February-14, 19:07, said:

If EW then bid their 18 point Grand Slam, so be it.

They clearly have no intention of doing so, as evidenced by East's initial 4S bid rather than a diamonds splinter or whatever
;-)