[Cyberyeti]

HardVector, on 2018-October-22, 10:13, said:

I have no idea what you are talking about. The original point I was commenting on was what did 1s-3h-x-4h-x mean. I stated it was responsive. It is now your turn to bid. How is the opener going to skip you and bid 5d? Please try to clarify what your point is.

No, I'm saying he can't make the responsive double if it shows equal length and he doesn't have it, so has to bid something else instead, which might just be 5♦ when you don't want it to be.

[HardVector]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-October-22, 10:15, said:

No, I'm saying he can't make the responsive double if it shows equal length and he doesn't have it, so has to bid something else instead, which might just be 5♦ when you don't want it to be.

So, you are talking about something completely different than the comment I was responding to. Why are you directing your angst at me? You are arguing about the first double, which I understand. It was kind of a tossup for me to bid 4♣ or double. Personally, I HATE passing 3n when it looks right if partner can handle their suit. 4♣ is unilateral and removes a 3n contract from the equation, so I would want it to be more suit oriented to do it. Doubling, however, does bring with it a potential 5 level guess in the next round of bidding. If partner bids 5d with 5 spades and 4 diamonds, you are probably going to have a little conversation. IMO, there is no good bid, make your best guess. Score 1 more for preempts.

[Cyberyeti]

HardVector, on 2018-October-22, 22:44, said:

So, you are talking about something completely different than the comment I was responding to. Why are you directing your angst at me? You are arguing about the first double, which I understand. It was kind of a tossup for me to bid 4♣ or double. Personally, I HATE passing 3n when it looks right if partner can handle their suit. 4♣ is unilateral and removes a 3n contract from the equation, so I would want it to be more suit oriented to do it. Doubling, however, does bring with it a potential 5 level guess in the next round of bidding. If partner bids 5d with 5 spades and 4 diamonds, you are probably going to have a little conversation. IMO, there is no good bid, make your best guess. Score 1 more for preempts.

No, I'm thinking a step ahead, because whether you can double first time depends on how partner responds to that double over a raise. If you play "equal length" for the responsive X I don't think you can, if this is a known possible hand type and you have other methods for the second double, maybe you can.

If partner doesn't bid 5♦ with 4, you'll be 2245 and possibly play a 5-<4 club fit instead of the 4-4 diamond fit. Also depends what your agreement is on a pass over 4♥.

[HardVector]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-October-23, 03:07, said:

If you play "equal length" for the responsive X I don't think you can

FYI, a responsive double is a double made in response to something else, typically to a takeout double. The double you are referring to as a responsive double, was a takeout double.

1s-(3h)-X takeout
1s-(3h)-X-(4h)-X responsive

This was what was confusing the heck out of me. You kept referring to the takeout double as responsive. In this example, the responsive double (by the opener) shows equal length in the minors. The takeout double SHOULD show both minors, but is done with a number of hands depending on the auction. In this case, it's jammed so you don't have a lot of room to explore for 3n. By your comments, because you don't have diamonds you "can't" double. That means that you will never play 3n on this kind of hand. I disagree with that.

[smerriman]

HardVector, you've missed Cyberyeti's point about three times in a row He was not referring to the takeout double as responsive.

If you play that partner's responsive double - 1♠-(3♥)-X-(4♥)-X - guarantees equal length in the minors, then you'll often be playing a poor 5♦ whenever partner does *not* have equal length in the minors.

The point was that the takeout double works a lot better if the responsive double isn't so strictly defined.

[kuhchung]

Late, but just double, hoping to survive. Correct to 4S in case the worst happens and hope to survive that one too.

[HardVector]

smerriman, on 2018-October-23, 14:45, said:

HardVector, you've missed Cyberyeti's point about three times in a row He was not referring to the takeout double as responsive.

If you play that partner's responsive double - 1♠-(3♥)-X-(4♥)-X - guarantees equal length in the minors, then you'll often be playing a poor 5♦ whenever partner does *not* have equal length in the minors.

The point was that the takeout double works a lot better if the responsive double isn't so strictly defined.

If partner doesn't have a responsive double, why are they making a responsive double? Is partner forced to take some action? If partner has nothing to say, then pass works. You've shown values, you aren't going to sell out when they are obviously sacrificing, are you? I'm just stating what the responsive double should show. If your partners lie to you, I suggest getting new partners.

[Cyberyeti]

HardVector, on 2018-October-23, 17:55, said:

If partner doesn't have a responsive double, why are they making a responsive double? Is partner forced to take some action? If partner has nothing to say, then pass works. You've shown values, you aren't going to sell out when they are obviously sacrificing, are you? I'm just stating what the responsive double should show. If your partners lie to you, I suggest getting new partners.

OK, the auction's gone 1♠-3♥-X-4♥ You hold a 5242/5143 hand, by your rules you can't make a responsive double, so what do you do ? and does it matter whether you have 11 points or 15 ?

[nige1]

DozyDom, on 2018-October-21, 08:04, said:

You're saying 4!C is committal but placing 4!S above it? That seems like a bit of a bizarre thought process. If I bid 4!C, I should be easily able to play in 4!S when partner doesn't have club support. If I bid 4!S, how am I going to play in a 9-card club fit rather than a 7-card spade fit?

After 3!S, are you suggesting p's 3NT rebid is an offer to play? It looks like a slam try of some sort to me.

I concede DozyDom's first point. Not so sure about his second

[phntmshark]

I'm doubling here, and I'll bid 4S over 4D, but with Jx of H and a club suit that doesn't need too much help from partner to run, there's too much chance we belong in 3NT for me to unilaterally go to the 4 level