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Pick your poison preempted

#1 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-April-08, 12:09



What approach do you take here ?

If you bid 4♣, partner bids 5♣, now 6♣ ? 6N ? 5N ? 5♠ ? do you fear the potential diamond ruff or insufficient heart stop more ?

**Edit - as people seem to be missing this, the 1♣ is precision, any 16+ that isn't 20-22 balanced
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#2 User is offline   alok c 

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Posted 2017-April-08, 12:55

6nt,assuming ♦AQ with East all balance pts barring may be 1Q/2Js are with North.There is no danger regarding ♥ stopper but ♦ may get ruffed if North has ♦xx.
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#3 User is offline   SteveMoe 

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Posted 2017-April-08, 13:25

4♣ GF natural, then 5N (Pick a Slam) over 5♣ by opener. (Does opener rebid 5♦ over 5♣ here as Choice of Major?) If opener rebids 6♥, we can offer 6♠ en route to 6N. The absence of a 5♦ call by opener (whether control or majors) suggests 6N is best.
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#4 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-April-08, 13:48

 SteveMoe, on 2017-April-08, 13:25, said:

4♣ GF natural, then 5N (Pick a Slam) over 5♣ by opener. (Does opener rebid 5♦ over 5♣ here as Choice of Major?) If opener rebids 6♥, we can offer 6♠ en route to 6N. The absence of a 5♦ call by opener (whether control or majors) suggests 6N is best.


Nothing fancy like that, you last played with this partner 2 years ago, and only once before that in the last 15 years, so your agreements are pretty basic.
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#5 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2017-April-08, 13:52

 Cyberyeti, on 2017-April-08, 12:09, said:


What approach do you take here ?
If you bid 4♣, partner bids 5♣, now 6♣ ? 6N ? 5N ? 5♠ ? do you fear the potential diamond ruff or insufficient heart stop more ?

I rank.
  • 3N = NAT Try to take the money,
  • 4N = RKC.
  • X. = NEG.
  • 4C = NAT.
  • 6N = NAT.

Guthrie.tech
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#6 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-April-08, 14:32

 nige1, on 2017-April-08, 13:52, said:

I rank.
  • 3N = NAT Try to take the money,
  • 4N = RKC.
  • X. = NEG.
  • 4C = NAT.
  • 6N = NAT.



I think 3N is ridiculous on a combined known minimum 32 count, I'd bid that an ace and a king lighter than this.

Did you notice 1♣ was precision ?
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#7 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2017-April-08, 17:13

 Cyberyeti, on 2017-April-08, 12:09, said:

If you bid 4♣, partner bids 5♣, now 6♣ ? 6N ? 5N ? 5♠ ? do you fear the potential diamond ruff or insufficient heart stop more ?


It depends partly on the opponents. At these colours I'd expect E to have a 5 card suit much of the time, so the threat of a ruff isn't necessarily high.
The "4♥ is a transfer to 4♠" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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#8 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-April-08, 17:30

 Jinksy, on 2017-April-08, 17:13, said:

It depends partly on the opponents. At these colours I'd expect E to have a 5 card suit much of the time, so the threat of a ruff isn't necessarily high.


Against these opps, it wouldn't occur to them to have 5, it might occur to them to have 6 but I doubt it.
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#9 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2017-April-08, 21:17

There used to be two younger men who played Precision at our club and I had a similar auction against them once with a genuine pre-emptive hand. They doubled my bid. When asked what this meant it was explained thus: Negative double forcing to game, any shape.


"If you bid 4♣, partner bids 5♣, now 6♣ ? 6N ? 5N ? 5♠ ? do you fear the potential diamond ruff or insufficient heart stop more ?" (Cyberyeti)

What I do fear is that the suits are unlikely to break, but I'm bidding 5 ♠ after a 4 ♣ - 5♣ raise, as it is the most descriptive (and lowest) bid: first round control of ♠; no first round control of ♥ or ♦. See what partner says to that bid first.

And yes, it might just wrongside the contract, but it could rightside the contract too. You just don't know.
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#10 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2017-April-08, 22:08

4C looks completely obvious.
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#11 User is offline   dow1978 

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Posted 2017-April-09, 00:13

 Cyberyeti, on 2017-April-08, 12:09, said:



What approach do you take here ?

If you bid 4♣, partner bids 5♣, now 6♣ ? 6N ? 5N ? 5♠ ? do you fear the potential diamond ruff or insufficient heart stop more ?


3NT.
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#12 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-April-09, 02:00

 dow1978, on 2017-April-09, 00:13, said:



3NT.


You really deserve KJxx, Axxx, A, Axxx opposite for a cold missed grand opposite a minimum precision club
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#13 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2017-April-09, 02:51

 Cyberyeti, on 2017-April-08, 14:32, said:

I think 3N is ridiculous on a combined known minimum 32 count, I'd bid that an ace and a king lighter than this.
Did you notice 1♣ was precision ?


Sorry :( No :(
Guthrie.tech
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#14 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-April-09, 06:40

From the hand illustrated,it would seem that partner holds all the top hearts for his opening bid so I would bid 6NT direct.....and pray :)
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#15 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2017-April-09, 06:53

If I bid 6N directly, my prayer would be that we have not missed a laydown 7 (as partner will surely not be bidding it). But then, I don't expect to have the mechanism to bid 7 with confidence, in light of which 6N seems a reasonable punt.

Perhaps one of the downsides of precision.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

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2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

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#16 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2017-April-09, 06:59

 Cyberyeti, on 2017-April-08, 12:09, said:


What approach do you take here ?
If you bid 4♣, partner bids 5♣, now 6♣ ? 6N ? 5N ? 5♠ ? do you fear the potential diamond ruff or insufficient heart stop more ?

Would partner bid 5♣ with three first round controls and the spade king?
I think he would bid 4♦ followed by a club raise.
No I am not worried about hearts
I would bid 6NT.
This might well be safer. Otherwise a diamond ruff might loom.

Rainer Herrmann
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#17 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-April-09, 07:39

 rhm, on 2017-April-09, 06:59, said:

Would partner bid 5♣ with three first round controls and the spade king?
I think he would bid 4♦ followed by a club raise.
No I am not worried about hearts
I would bid 6NT.
This might well be safer. Otherwise a diamond ruff might loom.

Rainer Herrmann


I bid 6N.

Partner had:



They didn't lead a heart and the A was right anyway, but 6♣ is much the better slam if you can't find 6♠ or 6N by partner.
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#18 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2017-April-09, 07:43

Yup, and change partner's HK to HA ...
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#19 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-April-09, 08:49

 Cyberyeti, on 2017-April-09, 07:39, said:

I bid 6N.

Partner had:



They didn't lead a heart and the A was right anyway, but 6♣ is much the better slam if you can't find 6♠ or 6N by partner.


Well,now that I've seen both players hands,I'm now thinking what the hell did East have for his diamond pre-empt(?!) Obviously there
are players out there who love to "ride the tiger" (!) :rolleyes:
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster

Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)


"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
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#20 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-April-09, 09:02

 PhilG007, on 2017-April-09, 08:49, said:

Well,now that I've seen both players hands,I'm now thinking what the hell did East have for his diamond pre-empt(?!) Obviously there
are players out there who love to "ride the tiger" (!) :rolleyes:


7 diamonds, the right vulnerability and a little barefaced cheek.
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