[manudude03]

I don't know if this is a good idea as a topic type, but here goes.

8.5 tables, mixed field (even spread ranging from beginner+ to expert). The weaker half of the field will be playing Acol (weak NT, 4cM) while the stronger half will be split between Acol and SAYC. What would you estimate to be the MP score for N/S here?

---

Final result was 3S+1 for +170.

[MrAce]

I think I like this type of topic.

What is the common opening bid for N hand in Acol?

[eagles123]

totally guessing but I think it's like to be a pretty good score, 70-80 maybe

[PhilKing]

The beginners and Acol players will bid 1♥-1♠-3NT or 1♣-1♥-3NT.

On a diamond lead they will stick in the ten (second hand low) and play the spade honours in the wrong order, attempting to block the suit. However, there is no obvious way to go off, so they will rack up their contract.

Of course, I would not expect this to happen very often, except that OP was obviously shocked by the score ...

[billw55]

It looks like there are 5 possible/probable losers in spades, so ten tricks ought to be pretty good.

Then again, 3NT can be made on the likely diamond lead from either side. But will people really be playing there with a perfectly good spade fit?

I voted 80-90%, but am feeling a little less confident now, maybe 60-70 or 70-80 is more realistic.

[Jinksy]

At least half the Acol players will open 1♣ rather than 1♥, and most of them will rebid 2N and play there. The brave few who bid on with the S hand will play in 3N or 4S. Even if they pass, they've done better than spade part score whenever they get Ds right. And against any number of spades a reasonable number of defenders will lead 4th highest from their longest and strongest.

So I'm guessing about 25%.

[billw55]

Jinksy, on 2015-July-20, 13:20, said:

At least half the Acol players will open 1♣ rather than 1♥, and most of them will rebid 2N and play there. The brave few who bid on with the S hand will play in 3N or 4S. Even if they pass, they've done better than spade part score whenever they get Ds right. And against any number of spades a reasonable number of defenders will lead 4th highest from their longest and strongest.

So I'm guessing about 25%.

.. except that the score in question is +170, not +140. While NT does better than spades, +180 seems unlikely. At least, more than one or two of them.

There is the amusing possibility of east leading a low diamond, and then when back in, leading low again, blocking the suit. Even that seems only to lead to +150 though.

[MrAce]

PhilKing, on 2015-July-20, 12:33, said:

The beginners and Acol players will bid 1♥-1♠-3NT or 1♣-1♥-3NT.

On a diamond lead they will stick in the ten (second hand low) and play the spade honours in the wrong order, attempting to block the suit. However, there is no obvious way to go off, so they will rack up their contract.

Of course, I would not expect this to happen very often, except that OP was obviously shocked by the score ...

I also thought 3 NT will be reached 1-2 or 3 times, and 2 NT partscore after 1m--1sp--2NT. NT partscores will do bad vs +170. Not sure if anyone will open 2 NT playing acol.

[gszes]

Safest contract at a safe level. Many will fail to bid game at all and spades offers the most opportunity for an overtrick(s). I guessed 70-80 with only 3nt really getting the best of them. Of course if east avoids a heart lead due to the bidding I will drop my estimate to around 40% (what was that 1h bid anyway)

[nige1]

manudude03, on 2015-July-20, 11:47, said:

I don't know if this is a good idea as a topic type, but here goes.
8.5 tables, mixed field (even spread ranging from beginner+ to expert). The weaker half of the field will be playing Acol (weak NT, 4cM) while the stronger half will be split between Acol and SAYC. What would you estimate to be the MP score for N/S here?
Final result was 3S+1 for +170.

---

MrAce, on 2015-July-20, 12:14, said:

I think I like this type of topic. What is the common opening bid for N hand in Acol?

Playing Acol, North might open 1♣ or 1♥. A likely auction:
1♣ - 1♠ -
2N - 3N AP
IMO 3N is likely to make, especially after ♥K lead, so 3♠+1 might be a bottom.

[FrancesHinden]

Posters so far seem to have missed that the South hand may not respond (doesn't have "6 + " HCP)

[StevenG]

Around here, many will go 2♦ (8 playing tricks or 18+, almost any shape (yech)) - 2♥ (relay) - 2NT - 3NT.

[mikeh]

I don't know acol, but if the system requires a 1♥ opening bid, then I don't think I am missing much. So I expect that almost the entire field will see the auction proceed 1♣ 1♠ 2N, and most will then play it there.

If I were on lead as east with that hand and that auction, I would be very, very tempted to lead the heart K. I mean, Jxxx, even J9xx, is a horrible lead against notrump when the suit could well be 3=3=3 around the table, and even 4=3, with dummy holding 4 (altho that may be less likely if acol is a strictly up the line method even with very weak responding hands.

On a Heart K lead, N-S fall into 10 winners in notrump. Moreover, it is possible to see how 11 tricks can be won after that start, altho that would be ugly.

It is a small field, which tends to randomize score distributions.

I doubt that the hand would prompt a post if the score were average, and so I predict that 170 scored 1 or fewer mps. It was beaten by 2 or 3N bids by N and by 4S bidders by S.

[billw55]

mikeh, on 2015-July-20, 14:37, said:

... 1♣ 1♠ 2N, and most will then play it there.

On a Heart K lead, N-S fall into 10 winners in notrump.

Yeah I overlooked this, three heart tricks come in.

[MrAce]

billw55, on 2015-July-20, 14:40, said:

Yeah I overlooked this, three heart tricks come in.

Yeah but is K of ♥ a likely lead in the context of level of players? They will lead ♦. Only 4 card suit E holds.

[mikeh]

MrAce, on 2015-July-20, 16:30, said:

Yeah but is K of ♥ a likely lead in the context of level of players? They will lead ♦. Only 4 card suit E holds.

wait a second...we were told that some of the players were expert

And maybe the non-experts would missort their hands....with KQJx in hearts, they'd all lead one, lol.

[kerseyd]

Surely some Norths will feel that this hand, with all four aces and five quick tricks, is too strong to open 1♣ and rebid 2N. If North opens 2N, then North is likely to play 4♠, and a ♥ lead is quite likely against this, allowing an easy ten tricks.

[kerseyd]

Actually, on reflection, 4♠ by N can always be made. For instance, on a club lead, North can keep West off lead and eventually endplay East.

[Cyberyeti]

kerseyd, on 2015-July-21, 07:11, said:

Actually, on reflection, 4♠ by N can always be made. For instance, on a club lead, North can keep West off lead and eventually endplay East.

Actually you may be able to scramble 4♠ home from the south hand even on a heart lead.

[Tramticket]

The standard English Acol auction is surely 1H, 1S, 2NT, Pass.

Of course, local clubs tend to attract local fads. In some clubs it might be fashionable to open a minor before a major, or open 2NT (or a Benji 2C) on a balanced 19.

But my guess is that 2NT making 8 Or 9 would be normal ...?