[alok c]

mikeh, on 2015-May-04, 14:04, said:

because one cannot get to 3N over 4♣. Sometimes 9 tricks in notrump are easier than 11 in a minor.

After north shown atleast 5/4 in hearts & clubs, will it be prudent from souths point of view to play in notrumps?

[mikeh]

alok c, on 2015-May-04, 14:26, said:

After north shown atleast 5/4 in hearts & clubs it will be prudent from souths point of view to play in notrumps?

Jx KQxxx Ax AQxx

16 real, and don't make me lower my view of your ability by suggesting a 1N opening bid, please. 3N is sort of trivial but 5♣ is not exactly cold if the opps know how to take their top winners.

That's just a simple example concocted with no thought whatsoever.

[dboxley]

benlessard, on 2015-May-04, 07:46, said:

please play Kaplan inversion you will not regret it. Both version, 1NT showing 5S or 4+S are fine.

I would even recommend playing

1H-1S-2Y-2S as art GF.

so when you make 1H-2C its always real clubs.

I like 2C to show a suit also and haven't yet had a problem with the following responses:

1M - 3NT = balanced 3 card raise 13-15 no 5 card suit worth mentioning, rarely if ever passed. Denies 4+ spades over 1H

1M - 1NT
2x - 3NT = 13-15 balanced w/o support for M

1H - 2S = 4+ spades, 3 card H support, GF You can use your own relays for more information, I use 2NT to find out how many spades but I'm sure there are better ways

Now you never have to manufacture a 2/1 response to a major.

[benlessard]

This forced you to play 1Nt wich i dont like also the jump to 3NT done with prime values is a notorious slam killer imo. However if you do play 1NT forcing you have to find meanings for the delayed jump to 3NT and its not obvious what is best to put there and the hands type you picked are reasonnable choices.

[PhantomSac]

dboxley, on 2015-May-04, 17:16, said:

I like 2C to show a suit also and haven't yet had a problem with the following responses:

You must never encounter a slam hand!

[dboxley]

PhantomSac, on 2015-May-04, 17:56, said:

You must never encounter a slam hand!

I don't know why you say that. I don't have to guess whether responder really has a suit for his/her 2/1 which makes it much easier to get to many slams and the balanced hands usually take care of themselves as long as you're not afraid to make mild slam tries below the game level.

[gszes]

1h normal
1s normal
2c normal
3c?? huh 2N seems vastly superior since 5m seems a long way off
pass of 3c????? SAY WHAT--I may not have cared a whit for the 3c bid but passing seems horribly misplaced when it appears that south has nothing in diamonds (our short suit yay) and is probably short in heats and we know of at least a 9 card club fit. II would not get carried away too much but I would at least keep the bidding going with 4c and if p with stiff H and 5th club cannot find 5 sobeit.

Now back to reality after a normal 2n (vs 3c)
3c min no game interest contract correction.
4c 10 card trump fit singleton heart dia control suddenly makes 5c appear much closer than it seems. 3n appears to be the wrong strain but a huge cross ruff is indeed possible.
5c heart ace huge in this decision actually feeling better about stiff dia with p unwilling to venture 3n (p dia stop may have been umm err speculative) 9+ card trump fit and cross ruff looks quite possible.

Hated pass of 3c the most seems like a total failure to reevaluate. Thank goodness responder did not have the dia A vs KQ or we miss slam with LESS HCP. The 3c bid should have made it easier to get to 5c and a successful bid cannot be assigned blame (even if I don't like it). this means I have to assign 100% of the blame on the pass of 3c.

[karlson]

dboxley, on 2015-May-05, 06:28, said:

I don't know why you say that. I don't have to guess whether responder really has a suit for his/her 2/1 which makes it much easier to get to many slams and the balanced hands usually take care of themselves as long as you're not afraid to make mild slam tries below the game level.

The point is that after sequences like your 1M-1N-2m-3N, you may have a 4-4 or even 5-4 minor suit fit which is the key to slam, but opener may not be able to move over 3N. Contrast that to 1M-2c-3c or 1M-2c-2d-3d.

Your style has some upsides, but my experience is that 1M-2m showing 5+ (I played this style a little bit) is just not all that big of a win.

[mike777]

karlson, on 2015-May-05, 11:13, said:

The point is that after sequences like your 1M-1N-2m-3N, you may have a 4-4 or even 5-4 minor suit fit which is the key to slam, but opener may not be able to move over 3N. Contrast that to 1M-2c-3c or 1M-2c-2d-3d.

Your style has some upsides, but my experience is that 1M-2m showing 5+ (I played this style a little bit) is just not all that big of a win.

Interesting points.

I suppose that after 1M=1nt=2m=?
responder needs a way to show slam interest and support by bidding the unbid major or minor. Opener may have bid 2c on a 3 card suit.

1h=1nt=2c=(2s or 3d).
1s=1nt=2c=(3h or 3d)

-----------------
------------------

As for the OP agree north could have done more.

I wonder what 3d by south after 2c would show? 1h=1s=2c=3d?

the same as 1h=1nt=2c=3d?

[dboxley]

karlson, on 2015-May-05, 11:13, said:

The point is that after sequences like your 1M-1N-2m-3N, you may have a 4-4 or even 5-4 minor suit fit which is the key to slam, but opener may not be able to move over 3N. Contrast that to 1M-2c-3c or 1M-2c-2d-3d.

Your style has some upsides, but my experience is that 1M-2m showing 5+ (I played this style a little bit) is just not all that big of a win.

See Mike777's response, there are lots of ways to work this out. There is no law that says you HAVE to bid 3NT at your second turn but when you do respond 1NT first partner knows you are balanced, no good 5 card suit.