[Cyberyeti]

case_no_6, on 2015-March-04, 22:36, said:

While it is certainly true I could be mistaken, I would like to see you construct an example hand that over caller could reasonably have on this auction given this hand where the 4h bid makes sense while fitting the situational constraints you have given. I don't see the disadvantage of bidding 4!h immediately.

♥AQxxxxxx, ♣AQ10x any singleton, you could easily have a slam on opposite not much, you're not expecting 2♥ to end the auction, you can bid 4N over 4♠ if it's bid over your 4♥ just in case partner has a stiff heart and a lot of clubs (you've shown 7-8/4 IMO bidding like this so partner should make the right decision). If S bids 4♠ and partner doubles, at least you have some defence which 4♥ initially wouldn't show.

[keithhus]

I comment as a beginner . I cannot see any sensible bid other than 5D. However, not being interested in Kindle! purpose of my reply is to seek comments on the 1st round pass by S. I think one should better describe ones hand rather than pass. Hence, would it be acceptable to bid 4D , or do I need to go to 5D? Thank you

[Cyberyeti]

keithhus, on 2015-March-05, 05:03, said:

I comment as a beginner . I cannot see any sensible bid other than 5D. However, not being interested in Kindle! purpose of my reply is to seek comments on the 1st round pass by S. I think one should better describe ones hand rather than pass. Hence, would it be acceptable to bid 4D , or do I need to go to 5D? Thank you

This depends on agreements, but for many:

3♦ would overstate your values (partner would expect some defence)
4♦ would be diamonds with a spade fit for some or a splinter with short diamonds and a spade fit for others, natural for very few
5♦ would be diamonds for some so possible, a void in diamonds and spade support (ace asking without the A♦ counting) for others

[helene_t]

keithhus, on 2015-March-05, 05:03, said:

purpose of my reply is to seek comments on the 1st round pass by S. I think one should better describe ones hand rather than pass. Hence, would it be acceptable to bid 4D , or do I need to go to 5D?

4♦ is absolutely fine if partner will take this as natural (and weak, presumably, since 3♦ would be forcing).

The problem is that many advanced pairs play 4♦ as showing spade suport plus values in diamonds (fit showing jump).

[keithhus]

Thanks Helene and Cyberyeti. At the level I play, 4D would be taken as natural and weak and that is what I would have bid had I had that hand. It remains to be seen whether that would result in the best contract vis-a-vis the other partnership agreements! I assume not, otherwise there would be no point in these other arrangements. Thanks once again.

[helene_t]

keithhus, on 2015-March-05, 13:56, said:

It remains to be seen whether that would result in the best contract vis-a-vis the other partnership agreements! I assume not, otherwise there would be no point in these other arrangements.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Many of us like playing fancy stuff for the sake of it, even if natural methods could be equally effective

[ugabugger]

call me crazy but I bid 4nt. My p could not possibly pass and therefore replied 5♠ thinking I would pass. After careful consideration I rose to 7 ♣

I ruffed the heart lead with Q ♣ in my hand played 2 rounds of ♣ to partners AK. ♣ split 2-2 . I returned to my J ♣ then played J ♦ The queen rose to cover it and the singleton K fell on my partner's A.

with opps having only the 9 ♦ remaining I ran all ♦ then finished with the A ♠ in partner's hand

[ahydra]

ugabugger, on 2015-May-06, 05:56, said:

call me crazy but I bid 4nt. My p could not possibly pass and therefore replied 5♠ thinking I would pass. After careful consideration I rose to 7 ♣

4NT pick-a-minor I can sort of understand, but 7C makes absolutely no sense. What's to say partner even has a club fit, let alone three first-round controls, the CK and fitting diamond values?

If you think 5S is 2 with Q, it surely has to be with spades as trumps, and then you're lucky not to find partner with AKQxxxx x Kxx xx.

I love how so many people called this earlier on in the thread Reminds me of the infamous 6D episode from years ago.

ahydra

[Vampyr]

ugabugger, on 2015-May-06, 05:56, said:

call me crazy but I bid 4nt. My p could not possibly pass and therefore replied 5♠ thinking I would pass. After careful consideration I rose to 7 ♣

I ruffed the heart lead with Q ♣ in my hand played 2 rounds of ♣ to partners AK. ♣ split 2-2 . I returned to my J ♣ then played J ♦ The queen rose to cover it and the singleton K fell on my partner's A.

with opps having only the 9 ♦ remaining I ran all ♦ then finished with the A ♠ in partner's hand

Wow great defence.

[gszes]

5d

Even if rho is gambling they have won and we know it. 4H should make with ease their way and 5d really just should not go down more than 500. An immediate 5d would have been better if available (not available to me). There is an ocean of difference btn the club and the dia suit so trying to bring clubs into the picture is just far too scary. While we cannot guarantee setting even 7h the odds of the opps managing to find a making slam are fairly small and pushing them up even 1 level could reap a huge reward for very small risk.

The worst part is that how well this fares on this particular hand does not matter much. It would probably take a ton of poor results to convince me 5d was an inferior idea.

[nige1]

ugabugger, on 2015-March-03, 05:14, said:

They vul. LHO deals. You hold ♠ x ♥- ♦ J 10 x x x x x x ♣ Q J x x
(Pass) 1♠ (2♥) Pass
(Pass) 2♠ (4♥) ??

check out my non fiction books on kindle Gary Margrove ugabugger@yahoo.com. I shall send one of my kindle books by email FREE to the person who gives me the correct answer

IMO 5♦ = 10, Pass = 9, 4N = 6, 4♠ = 5.

[Vampyr]

nige1, on 2015-May-06, 12:37, said:

IMO 5♦ = 10, Pass = 9, 4N = 6, 4♠ = 5.

Nigel, I have meant to say this for awhile: surely every potential call cannot have an expectation of at least average.

[nige1]

Vampyr, on 2015-May-06, 16:04, said:

Nigel, I have meant to say this for awhile: surely every potential call cannot have an expectation of at least average.

No -- nor do I think that the chosen bid has a 100% expectation . The simple scheme is

• The bid you choose = 10,
• Bids you consider that you think might work = 5-9.
• Bids you consider or others choose that you think won't work = 0-4.