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Another questionable slam

#1 User is offline   antonylee 

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Posted 2015-February-16, 23:03


Obviously either major jack makes the contract much better. Even here the contract is much better than many other slams I've played in but it'd still be nice to have stopped earlier.

Edit: X is a normal lead director, but note that E/W did not have a weak 2D available.
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#2 User is offline   mikestar13 

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Posted 2015-February-16, 23:23

Not sure about the E/W stolen bid double in this situation--sounds like a (badly) mistaken explanation, or a (the are no words in the English language to describe it) mistaken idea of a reasonable partnership agreement. In any case, it likely does show some length in the majors, suggesting bad splits. With the South hand, my second bid is 2NT, and we should end up in 3NT.
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#3 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2015-February-17, 04:59

south added more than an ace to his hand - north doesn't need ace of spades to cue 4h.

having taken a rosy view as to his opening bid (it's not a 2c bid as far as i'm concerned), he can apply the brakes (just raise 3 to 4 - failing to cue doesn't deny a control) and leave north to plough on with the right hand. this seems like a recurring theme after your previous effort.
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#4 User is offline   antonylee 

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Posted 2015-February-17, 11:04

I clarified the explanation of the double, which is just a normal lead director (and certainly improved my DK -- I thought I had learnt my lesson and was planning to raise to 4 (perhaps after some cuebidding) in absence of the double).

While there are obvious similarities with my previous overbid, for those of you who open 1S, next time partner holds xx xxx AQJxx xxx and you wrong-side 3N after 1S-1N-... when the opponents bid 2C 2D; 2S 3D; 3N. And perhaps more importantly, North holding AJx Kxxxx in the majors makes slam pretty good, and I don't see a different auction in that case.
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#5 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2015-February-17, 11:50

View Postantonylee, on 2015-February-17, 11:04, said:

While there are obvious similarities with my previous overbid, for those of you who open 1S, next time partner holds xx xxx AQJxx xxx and you wrong-side 3N after 1S-1N-... when the opponents bid 2C 2D; 2S 3D; 3N. And perhaps more importantly, North holding AJx Kxxxx in the majors makes slam pretty good, and I don't see a different auction in that case.


Even with AJx Kxxxx in the majors, you still need East not to have say a doubleton club and spades to split, if you are assuming diamond lead to the ace and you are trying to ruff the clubs. Plus nobody having singleton heart and ruffing on your path to drawing trumps. These things all surely drag the slam below par. Not to mention how do you plan on staying out of slam when partner has 3 or 4 small clubs rather than 2?

Opening 2 is OK IMO if you are going to rebid 2nt and treating the hand as 22 bal. Or one could open 2nt. This protects your doubletons, but also rates to reach the wrong contract when partner is 3-5 in the majors. Rebidding 2S partner is going to play you for more tricks, better suit and isn't going to expect 2 trump losers with xxx in support, you will get to bad slams.

Right-siding is a bit overrated IMO. On your supposed construction it's only going to cost you the contract on the combo of heart lead, HK offside, hearts not 4-4. You are also OK if hearts are 6-2 and the SA is with the doubleton.
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#6 User is offline   antonylee 

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Posted 2015-February-17, 14:43

With AJx Kxxxx and any minor shape, I can unblock hearts (winning a trump lead in hand if necessary), cross with a trump, ruff a heart high and draw trumps ending on the board, requiring just spades to split and hearts no worse than 4-2 (~60%).
I was intending to rebid 2N (well, tbh I wasn't totally sure of that and was postponing my decision when I opened 2C, which is obviously not a good idea :)), but the doubled talked me out of that rebid.
I do appreciate your comment on rightsiding; despite holding AQ and Kx it isn't actually that easy to construct many hands where it's going to matter, which I didn't realize earlier.
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#7 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2015-February-17, 15:33

View Postantonylee, on 2015-February-17, 14:43, said:

With AJx Kxxxx and any minor shape, I can unblock hearts (winning a trump lead in hand if necessary), cross with a trump, ruff a heart high and draw trumps ending on the board, requiring just spades to split and hearts no worse than 4-2 (~60%).

True enough, although on your auction you really don't know whether partner has 5 hearts or 2 of them, so forcing to slam seems presumptuous.
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#8 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2015-February-17, 17:45

South was guilty of a very common I/A attitude....he fell in love with his big hand and kept on bidding the same values repeatedly. In addition, he committed the most common of slam-bidding errors by using keycard when he had no idea at all of what to do afterwards.

He has a rock-bottom 2 opener and the double of 2, which improved his hand somewhat, didn't suddenly turn it into the monster that he must have felt it to be.

I assume that 2 was a positive game force or, if not, that it was ambiguous and shown, by the 3 raise, to have been a positive game force.

Having established a fit, and with a positive response opposite, it is clearly correct to cuebid, since partner, tho a passed hand, could have a far better hand than he did hold. Axxx Kxxx xxx Qx for example.

But having cuebid, and elicited a heart control, S had no business using keycard. This is (I suspect) yet another in the never-ending presentation of auctions in which players have no concept of how to use keycard or, far more importantly, how to avoid using keycard.

I can see that S would be afraid of bidding just 4 over 4, since partner might be afraid of the 5-level with no diamond control, but the desire to risk going to the 5-level is no excuse for keycard. Look at the outcome....even finding the magic xx in clubs over there, the slam requires a good trump break. Give partner Axx Kxxx xxx xxx, and the auction would be no different at all, and slam has zero play.

if I could hammer home one lesson for I/A players who want to improve their slam bidding it would be to NEVER use keycard unless the answer to keycard allows you to place the contract with confidence. That doesn't mean the contract has to be cold, but it does mean that you have a reliable idea of what you need from the opps (not from partner) to make...i.e. a 3-2 break or, if you like swings, a winning finesse.

When the answer leaves you with no clue as to whether the contract is cold (Axxx KJxx xx Qx) or hopeless (Axx Kxx xxxx xxx) or in-between, then you should not have used keycard.

This isn't tough. You can always think about this before using keycard. Here, for example, you could cuebid 5 as a sort of general try, confirming that you controlled diamonds and that you couldn't use keycard. Partner won't always get it right, especially an I/A partner, but by having cooperative auctions, and talking about it afterwards, you'll develop that elusive skill known as judgement. Keep using keycard inappropriately, however, and you will never get any better, and nor will your partner. You'll just keep on bidding bad and hopeless contracts and bemoan the fact that you don't know how to avoid them.

Personally, I would have bid 4 over 4. This wouldn't, to me, deny a diamond control. It would simply say that I hold a bad hand for the auction so far, which I do.

Partner on this hand would respect the signoff. But if he had a significantly better hand, he should risk the 5-level. Of course, if this S hand is your idea of a 'good' 2 hand, forget what I just said, but if one accepts that this is about as bad as it gets, then one cannot readily construct a hand wherein 5 is bad opposite a working 9 count or so with Axxx in spades.
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#9 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2015-February-17, 17:53

View Postantonylee, on 2015-February-17, 14:43, said:

With AJx Kxxxx and any minor shape, I can unblock hearts (winning a trump lead in hand if necessary), cross with a trump, ruff a heart high and draw trumps ending on the board, requiring just spades to split and hearts no worse than 4-2 (~60%).

I count 5 trump tricks + 4 heart tricks + 2 club tricks. Are you also assuming A to be onside?
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#10 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2015-February-17, 18:32

View Postcherdano, on 2015-February-17, 17:53, said:

I count 5 trump tricks + 4 heart tricks + 2 club tricks. Are you also assuming A to be onside?

if not, it seems a fair bet that most opps would lead the A at trick one, after the lead-directing double

I agree with the notion that the OP committed some pretty basic errors in the bidding, and in his subsequent creation of hands on which his bidding offered a decent play for the slam, but I do think that he was reasonable in upgrading the diamond K on the auction.
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