[Winstonm]

Some movies were done right the first time and any remake attempt is bound to be a disappointment. What movies do you think should be off limits to remakes?

For me: To Kill a Mockingbird with Gregory Peck.

[kenberg]

Winstonm, on 2014-October-13, 09:59, said:

Some movies were done right the first time and any remake attempt is bound to be a disappointment. What movies do you think should be off limits to remakes?

For me: To Kill a Mockingbird with Gregory Peck.

I agree about Mockingbird. For one thing, it's a good movie. But also, and there are several movies where this could be said, it could not be made today with the all the same scenes. After Atticus's unsuccessful defense of Tom Robinson and he is leaving the courthouse, an African-American tells Jem (words not claimed to be exact) "Stand up, your father is passing". Today that would be attacked as a patronizing portrayal. And of course no black man could be named Tom.

And toward the end, Bob Ewell dies from a knife, no doubt wielded by Boo Radley, and for good reason. The sheriff announces his conclusion that "Bob Ewell fell on his knife". A very logical, if factually incorrect, conclusion. A movie maker today would be concerned that this would offend someone, and for that matter the portrayal of Boo might offend someone.

Modern films are free to portray sex and violence in great detail. On other matters, they often wimp out.

As to my contribution to your list, Becky's immediate reaction was the same as mine; hands off Casablanca.

I have others to submit later.

OK, this is later.

I thought Chicago was great and I cannot imagine it done any better.

The Best Days of Our Lives and The Third Man are two very well done post war movies. I was 6 when the war ended so I am no authority on the era, but still they both seem right to me. There are others from the same era that I like a lot, but I will hold it to these two.

It's very hard to imagine anyone improving on Barbara Stanwyck and Henry Fonda in The Lady Eve.


This last is just a comment, not a "Do Not Remake". I caught the last half or so of "Only Angels Have Wings" on tv recently. Cary Grant and Jean Arthur with a supporting role by Rita Hayworth. I noticed that I liked Cary Grant a lot more in this movie, from 1939, before he became such a big star. And Rita Hayworth in a supporting role. Very interesting. Jean Arthur is given a great line: Geoff Carter (Grant) wants Bonnie Lee (Arthur) to stay, not leave as she is saying she will do. Grant has had little experience in having to actually ask a woman to stay, so he takes out a two-headed coin and suggest that he will flip it and if it comes up heads she should stay. Of course it comes up heads, but Arthur, unaware that the coin is rigged, refuses to stay on that basis. She says "I'm very hard to get Geoff, all you have to do is ask me".

[billw55]

Casablanca.

[Winstonm]

Ditto Ken and Bill on Casablanca.

Btw. No remake movie lists would be fine on this thread, as well. I would hate to see a remake of Alien, Lawrence of Arabia, or Gone With the Wind, too.

[mike777]

Ditto ON Casablanca

[Aberlour10]

I have read somewhere >>>there is a special place reserved in Hell for the person that ever gets a remake of Casablanca produced

[jjbrr]

I am shocked, shocked to see Casablanca listed here.

Spoiler

Oh, thank you very much

[barmar]

kenberg, on 2014-October-13, 11:40, said:

I agree about Mockingbird. For one thing, it's a good movie. But also, and there are several movies where this could be said, it could not be made today with the all the same scenes. After Atticus's unsuccessful defense of Tom Robinson and he is leaving the courthouse, an African-American tells Jem (words not claimed to be exact) "Stand up, your father is passing". Today that would be attacked as a patronizing portrayal. And of course no black man could be named Tom.

I'm not sure I agree with all that. As long as it's clear that the movie is set in a time when these attitudes were prevalent, I think it would be acceptable. It would be seen as a period piece.

For comparison, see the TV series "The Knick" that has been running the last few months on Cinemax. It's set in 1900 New York City, and racial issues are shown quite explicitly (one of the main characters is a black surgeon who has been hired to work in a white hospital, and this caused much controversy). "Masters of Sex" also had a race-related plotline, with Masters's wife volunteering at a civil rights group -- there were a number of scenes showing how blacks were mistreated in the 60's.

There are also cases where the relaxed standards we have today allow more authentic portrayals. "Flowers in the Attic" was remade this year on cable TV. The 1987 film version left out the incestuous relationship between Cathy and Chris, because it was too controversial at the time (the book was banned in many areas because of this). The remake put it back in.

[Winstonm]

In all the threads in all the sites in all the world, she had to write into mine.

[kenberg]

barmar, on 2014-October-13, 17:12, said:

I'm not sure I agree with all that. As long as it's clear that the movie is set in a time when these attitudes were prevalent, I think it would be acceptable. It would be seen as a period piece.

For comparison, see the TV series "The Knick" that has been running the last few months on Cinemax. It's set in 1900 New York City, and racial issues are shown quite explicitly (one of the main characters is a black surgeon who has been hired to work in a white hospital, and this caused much controversy). "Masters of Sex" also had a race-related plotline, with Masters's wife volunteering at a civil rights group -- there were a number of scenes showing how blacks were mistreated in the 60's.

There are also cases where the relaxed standards we have today allow more authentic portrayals. "Flowers in the Attic" was remade this year on cable TV. The 1987 film version left out the incestuous relationship between Cathy and Chris, because it was too controversial at the time (the book was banned in many areas because of this). The remake put it back in.

This may well be more in keeping with what I was saying (or at least intending to say) than it is against it. Of course today you could make a piece that shows racial bigotry in that period of time. That's the easy part. Everyone understands that we were all a bunch of bigots back then and so portraying it challenges no one. The scene that I cited had black people standing to honor a white man who risked a great deal to do what was right. He succeeded in showing, beyond any credible doubt, that the accused man was innocent. Not just unproven guilt but proven innocence. It didn't matter, he was found guilty. The portrayed reaction of the black community was to stand with dignity to honor the effort, ability and the courage of the white man who defended him. And then they left to return to their homes. It is this that I doubt would be an acceptable portrayal today.

An aside to this aside: You mention Masters of Sex. We have quit watching. The early episodes were, I thought, very interesting. Even these early episodes took great liberties with historical accuracy. For me that matters, but I still liked it and found the portrayal of Viginia Johnson especially of interest. But, in my opinion, the show lost its way in the second season. Becky and I don't agree on shows all the time, she likes NCIS while although I don't think it is awful I don't much care for it and seldom watch it. But on Masters, we agreed both in liking the early episodes and being very disappointed with the later ones.

Getting back to movies and censorship, indeed there were many restrictions. Certainly incest was not much addressed. Adult sexual relations were acceptable even during the code years, but you needed to be adequately mature to catch it. For example, I mentioned seeing the 1939 movie Only Angels Have Wings. Near the end, Bonnie and Geoff are talking and she is announcing she will be leaving on the next boat. He says "Do you, uh, well, do you regret anything" and she replies "I don't regret a thing. Not a thing". If there previously had been, for some unaccountable reason, any misunderstanding of what their relationship was, that clarified it. And at the end, as she chooses to stay, marriage is not discussed.

Suddenly Last Summer also dealt with difficult issues And there was A Streetcar Named Desire. There were many many movies that dealt with sensitive issues, but the references were sufficiently oblique to go over the heads of the kids. And, I think often, over the heads of the censors.

Cheyenne Autumn was on the other night. Four stars although not by my rating. But I picked up this tidbit. John Ford had Apaches playing the Cheyenne roles and so they spoke Apache insted of Cheyenne. The censors did not get a translator. Apparently during the treaty signing the Apache/Chenne were making jokes, in Apache, about the size of the General's penis. Or so understand. The movie was a great hit with Apaches.


And back to the list: I like some Clint Eastwood movies more, make that a lot more, than others but I think The Unforgiven is excellent and no one should touch it.

[billw55]

Vertigo.

[Trinidad]

The longest day

Rik

[ggwhiz]

No need to narrow this down to the classics.

The Fearless Vampire Killers, Peter Pan, The Wizard of Oz. This is Spinal Tap, Fast Times at Ridgemont High.....

And PLEASE remake Where the Buffalo Roam. Good material totally butchered.

[kenberg]

This is a fun thread. I remember stumbling in to Fast Times at Ridgemont High, mostly because I had nothing else to do, and thinking "By God, this is actually good!"

[Cyberyeti]

Most of the ones I think should never be remade are because we'd have been better off if the first one hadn't been made either.

I'm not sure anybody can do the LotR films after Jackson.

[Winstonm]

kenberg, on 2014-October-14, 11:30, said:

This is a fun thread. I remember stumbling in to Fast Times at Ridgemont High, mostly because I had nothing else to do, and thinking "By God, this is actually good!"

Sean Penn was quite remarkable as the surfer dude, Jeff Spicoli.

[Winstonm]

Star Wars. The Deer Hunter. The Godfather.

[Winstonm]

billw55, on 2014-October-14, 05:57, said:

Vertigo.

I get dizzy just thinking about the possibilities.

[billw55]

Apocalypse Now. Just try it, I dare you.

[jjbrr]

Breakfast Club got it right the first time