[Fluffy]

After playing in the cavendish, I saw some speculative 3NT bids on competition, with a long minor and the strength evenly divided, waiting to have a shot at game.

I was thinking about automatically doubling all these games. They might make anywere from 6 to 9 tricks, but will rarely score 10 and almost never 11. You might also gain from not giving away info from your double, you always double, so the tactic of bidding 3NT and retreating if they double will never succeed, they have to guess. For example I have had some success doubling with doubleton queen badly placed on their suit making them run from a making contract.

But then Lantaron told me that it might also be profitable to redouble without looking at your hand. You are losing 13 for -800, going for -1600 is not that big of a difference. At least you should redouble a lot against this tactic.

[PhilKing]

If you've bid a rubbish game and they have doubled, you are gaining a bundle when it makes, and not much more when you redouble.

But when you are vulnerable and go one off, you lose 400 instead of 200, which is a substantial difference if others are conceding 100.

[gszes]

Like many "ideas" (another term for gamble) it might be decent to try such a tactic when
you are trying to catch up or at the beginning of the match so there is a lot of time to
make up for a gone bad hand. I would not use this tactic late in a match where I was at or
near the lead since I could easily be turning an average into a zero and a good score into
a not much better score. You need to have a really good feel for the type of bid your opps
are making to use this weapon since it is primarily effective when the opps are also
gambling:))))))))))))))))))))))))))) good luck it has some promise if you use it wisely.

[nige1]

Fluffy, on 2014-September-07, 01:45, said:

After playing in the cavendish, I saw some speculative 3NT bids on competition, with a long minor and the strength evenly divided, waiting to have a shot at game.

I was thinking about automatically doubling all these games. They might make anywere from 6 to 9 tricks, but will rarely score 10 and almost never 11. You might also gain from not giving away info from your double, you always double, so the tactic of bidding 3NT and retreating if they double will never succeed, they have to guess. For example I have had some success doubling with doubleton queen badly placed on their suit making them run from a making contract.

But then Lantaron told me that it might also be profitable to redouble without looking at your hand. You are losing 13 for -800, going for -1600 is not that big of a difference. At least you should redouble a lot against this tactic.

If the 3N opener can have side-suit values, e.g.
♠ J x ♥ x ♦ Q J x ♣ A K Q J x x x x then the double may sometimes help a little, provided you have agreed an appropriate convention e.g.
After 3N (Double) ?? or
After 3N (Pass) Pass (Double); ??

• Pass = ♥ stopper. Mnemonic: If your heart's stopped, pass away. (Then partner, bids 4m without a ♥ stopper, redoubles without a ♠ stopper, passes with both).
• Redouble = No ♥ stopper.

[wanoff]

That double is already in place in certain auctions, for example, after (3m)-p-(3nt)
3nt is a routine psyche NV so double in 4th is also routine.

I don't know about a double in other auctions where partner is on lead. Won't you lose the lead directing double ?

[whereagles]

I'm not totally sure what situations you're thinking of, Gonzalo... but my memory of 650s, 1050s, and the like going together with 430s and 660s is not so vague. Hardly happens to me because (I don't go for top-or-bottom stuff, so I usually pull), but I see it frequently enough

[WesleyC]

When an obviously speculative 3NT contract gets doubled, it feels more valuable to me to use redouble as suggests doubt rather than 'even more blood.' This sometimes means you can't play 3NTxx, but it does also help you avoid a lot of potentially disastrous 3NTx contracts.

Admittedly my opinion might change if my opponents started very regularly doubling on the kinds of hands that you're talking about.

[ggwhiz]

A pre-alert of this should blow it out of the water as I suspect I would have many opportunities to walk the dog on the way to a cold 3nt than to blindly "gamble" 3nt when I know a double is coming.

No pre-alert is unthinkable but may be the only chance that this could work.

[Cthulhu D]

Why does a penalty double need to be pre-alerted? Edit: I guess if he was doubling 100% of 3NT bids in competition, but he's not. He's doubling on the basis that he doesn't think this is making.

But he could prealert it as 'aggressive or speculative penalty doubles of 3NT in competition' and then he can also then play pass as 'they may be walking the dog' and then you won't know what to do.

[Free]

WesleyC, on 2014-December-09, 10:00, said:

When an obviously speculative 3NT contract gets doubled, it feels more valuable to me to use redouble as suggests doubt rather than 'even more blood.' This sometimes means you can't play 3NTxx, but it does also help you avoid a lot of potentially disastrous 3NTx contracts.

Admittedly my opinion might change if my opponents started very regularly doubling on the kinds of hands that you're talking about.

Pass to show doubt in direct seat gives you more options. Your partner can RDbl for scrambling purposes (unnecessary in some cases ofcourse) or bid something. When using RDbl to show doubt, partner can only bid.

Some examples:
- After 3m-p-3NT-Dbl, obviously there's no need to scramble. The escape route will always be in opener's minor. Nevertheless you can still use this to suggest or deny interest in playing 5m.
- After 1NT-p-3NT-Dbl, a scramble can be very useful. If responder bids a suit, he gambled with them as a source of tricks. But after RDbl you can scramble into a fit at 4-level (for example when the Dbl asks for a ♠ lead and neither one of us has a ♠ stopper).

[Free]

When you 'always' do something, your opponents can take that into account and use that strategy against you. In this case they can walk the dog to prevent a Dbl, or they can go quickly when they expect to make. Moreover, they can easily psych controls to mess up your (or partner's) lead.

There's a similar MP strategy to always Dbl when the auction goes 2NT-p-p-? because most of the time declarer has to play everything from his own hand and will usually only manage 6-7 tricks. If you know your opps will always Double 2NT in this situation, you'll never raise 2NT to 3NT with the proper values and expect to gain massively (even if 3NT would be 2 off, you break even).

In general, I don't think obligated penalizing strategies can work. Overcalls (like semi-obligated 1♠ overcalls after strong 1♣) can have merit though.