[Cyberyeti]

cherdano, on 2014-August-18, 11:07, said:

I thought the example hand we are discussing was KQJ-8th and another king; that hand has play for 3N opposite either hand.

But even so, I don't understand your point. If you think 3N is odds on, you can pass it, and you are doing better than passing-and-pulling to 4♦. If you think 3N is odds against, you can pull to 5♦ and you are even with the delayed sequence.

My point is that 2♥-P-3♥-P-P-4♦ I can still score +130 in 4♦, partner will not get excited, I think 2♥-3♦-3♥-3N-P-4♦ is forcing so I'm playing 4N/5♦ at least so I probably have to pass 3N.

[gszes]

PASS 4d definitely
Would you really want p to overcall 3d with a hand like
K xx QJxxxxxx Ax?

P waited until the current bidding when you are marked with values
before venturing in at these colors. Your hand contains no good surprises
(ie aces) and there is no guarantee your spades are any better than partners
diamonds.

This does not mean the 4d call is great no matter since it increases the chances
the opps will bid/make 4h but your hand could be significantly better than it is
and be closed out by the bidding.

[PhilKing]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-August-18, 16:58, said:

I think 2♥-3♦-3♥-3N-P-4♦ is forcing so I'm playing 4N/5♦ at least so I probably have to pass 3N.

It is usually assumed that this is so, but there is absolutely no reason why it should be. After all, if you have a slam try (hugely unlikely anyway) you can cue or raise to 4NT.

FWIW, Fantoni seems to agree with you. At game all he overcalled 3♣ over 2♥ with this rock-crusher:

♠62
♥-
♦7654
♣AQJ8654

and jumped to 5♣ when partner bid 3NT, presumably because he was worried 4♣ would suggest strength.

[steve2005]

gszes, on 2014-August-30, 09:36, said:

PASS 4d definitely

....

This does not mean the 4d call is great no matter since it increases the chances
the opps will bid/make 4h but your hand could be significantly better than it is
and be closed out by the bidding.

I agree, 4♦ call may just push them into making 4♥.

didn't say as far as I could see if this was imps or mp, but at imps 4♦ is bizarre

[rmnka447]

Definitely pass 4 ♦.

I think Cyberyeti has pretty much nailed what your partner is likely to hold.

Your partner's bid is quite unusual. A good rule of thumb is "When partner does something strange, don't save partner." It's a matter of partnership trust to understand that partner may have a good reason for what they did despite its oddity.

Too often over the years, I've seen one partner try to "save" the other and turn what would have been a terrific result into a terrible result. Also, if partner has done something outrageous, then maybe a large set or two will cure partner's rambunctiousness.