[el mister]

Had a bad misunderstanding with pard the other night - he opens in the following sequence:

1♠ - p - 1NT - p - 2NT - p - 3♠ - all pass.

I held a balanced hand, 10-12, with 3 spades [apologies I don't have a hand record from the club].

I bid 3♠ thinking it must show 10-12 with 3, and possibly pard might prefer to place the contract in 3NT. Is this an egregious error? Pard took it as a weak take-out.

Struggling to think of a hand consistent with the bidding that would want to take out 18-19 balanced into 3S. Something like 5-6pts, shapely with 3♠, 3163, say?

[helene_t]

It is normal to start with 1NT with 3-card support and a hand that is too weak for a direct 2♠. If 2♠ would be about 7-10 support points (HCPs plus some points for the 9th trump and for doubletons or singletons), you have shown about 4-6.

[Trinidad]

This is an area of partnership agreement. My guess is that most play like Helene. But it is also playable that the 4-6 hand chooses between biting the bullet with 4♠ and passing, whereas the 10-12 hand bids 3♠.

What you play depends on what you think of your chances for slam with 12 opposite a balanced 19. I think that at MPs Helene's method works better, since it will get you to the right partscores and games. At IMPs agressive games should be bid anyway and the increased accuracy in slam bidding may pay off.

Rik

[Stephen Tu]

el mister, on 2014-May-28, 04:12, said:

Had a bad misunderstanding with pard the other night - he opens in the following sequence:

1♠ - p - 1NT - p - 2NT - p - 3♠ - all pass.

I held a balanced hand, 10-12, with 3 spades [apologies I don't have a hand record from the club].

I bid 3♠ thinking it must show 10-12 with 3, and possibly pard might prefer to place the contract in 3NT. Is this an egregious error? Pard took it as a weak take-out.

Why would you want partner to make the decision between 3nt/4s? You know he is 18-19 balanced, you are in the best position to make this decision; with flat hand 3nt, with stiff 4♠. Partner doesn't know whether you are balanced or not, whereas you know he is balanced. So there is no need for 10-12 to be able to bid a forcing 3♠, and you can reserve that for the hands that were too weak to raise 1♠ to 2♠ directly, that are shapely and don't want to pass 2nt.

[whereagles]

To bid over a strong rebid by opener is forcing. Thus 3H is slammish and 4H is the flattish weak hand.

[mycroft]

Common agreement in my area is like whereagles; after 2NT rebid, the only NF call is pass.

However, in this case, the question is "is slam on with 18 BAL opposite a 3-card limit raise?" not necessarily "should we play 3NT?" I agree that responder is more likely to be able to guess right than opener; I also am unsure that the number of 3-card limit raises that would be interested in anything past 4M opposite 5332 18-19 is small, and probably could be handled with another call - 4m as a delayed splinter or a delayed fit jump, perhaps. If one does that, then one could return 3M to be "crap-and-3" (this is a case where constructive raises is bad; if you don't play them, you won't be stuck with a decent 7-and-3 in this auction, as you would have raised already).

[kuhchung]

i have always played every 3 level suit here as NF, 3S is "i was goofing around with a terrible hand and 3-4 spades", good hands just bash 3N or 4S. you probably don't have slam with a 5-3 fit 18 opp 11 anyway.

[Siegmund]

I think 3 of a new suit can be NF here... but I would certainly take 3S as slammish.

Of course I hate Single Raise Constructive with a passion. My 1NTF will NEVER contain 3 spades if it is weak.

People who play Single Raise Constructive have a problem here, caused by how overloaded their 1NT response is. I suppose they have to play transfers to sort out hand strength?

[helene_t]

mycroft, on 2014-May-28, 11:04, said:

I also am unsure that the number of 3-card limit raises that would be interested in anything past 4M opposite 5332 18-19 is small, and probably could be handled with another call - 4m as a delayed splinter or a delayed fit jump, perhaps.

I would take 4m as natural and forcing here, with 3m being nonforcing. Basically 3-level bits are to play except for
1♠-1NT
2NT-3♥
which is COG with five hearts (or possibly slam interest with hearts).

It may be better to play transfers, though. Probably even better to put (most of) the natural 2NT rebids into the (artificial) 2♣ rebid.

[mycroft]

Right. Helene, this is in the context (the first line of my comment!) that around here, the only NF call in this auction is pass...

That may not be the right way to play; but certainly if you're not going to accept the premise, the conclusion will seem absurd.