[kenberg]

These two hands are for amusement, although the first one may have some bidding interest. In the second one I had no idea what was going on.

First hand:

matchpoints

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If I bid clubs now, how many? I decided it's mps, maybe a nt partscore will score well, I passed. This could have been a mistake but it continued,

matchpoints

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The full hand was

---

After the hand the conversation went:
Me: I knew I should have bid 6!
P: You passed 1NT
Me: In nt, it only makes 1.

I was joking but I don't think partner was amused.

Over 1NT if I am to do something, which surely I wished to, what do you recommend? 2♣ is too little, I assume 3♣ is a gf and seems to be too much. And shows at least 5-4 I would think. Perhaps raise 1NT to 2NT? Then maybe partner bids 3♣, cog, and I bid 5? This will go better if I open 1♣ instead of 1♦, maybe that's the right route.


Second hand (different partner, I often found myself wondering about his meaning, but I am continuing with the minor miracle theme.)

Note: I mistakenly had, at first post, made N the dealer and opening 1NT. No, South was the dealer opening 1NT. It is now correctly shown, as it actually went.

---

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Unbeatable as near as I can see. And 3NT doesn't go so well unless I am favored with a spade lead.

I saw afterward that partner alerted his 3♣ as showing diamond support. I failed to get the message. All's well that ends well.
Also, if the auction begins 1NT-(2♣)-2♦(transfer) etc, then 5♦, if we get to it, is played North and goes down on a spade lead.
Bridge may be a game of skill, but a little luck never hurts.

[hotShot]

kenberg, on 2014-May-01, 06:40, said:

Second hand (different partner, I often found myself wondering about his meaning, but I am continuing with the minor miracle theme.)

---

---

Unbeatable as near as I can see. And 3NT doesn't go so well unless I am favored with a spade lead.

I saw afterward that partner alerted his 3♣ as showing diamond support. I failed to get the message. All's well that ends well.
Also, if the auction begins 1NT-(2♣)-2♦(transfer) etc, then 5♦, if we get to it, is played North and goes down on a spade lead.
Bridge may be a game of skill, but a little luck never hurts.

Bridge has changed a lot since i last posted here, 1NT with a 5M and a single ...

[Antrax]

Your second diagram is reversed (shows N dealer instead of S).
For the first, I guess open the hand 1NT?

[kenberg]

hotShot, on 2014-May-01, 06:51, said:

Bridge has changed a lot since i last posted here, 1NT with a 5M and a single ...

Oops. I am so sorry. South opened 1NT. It is correct now.

[Winstonm]

I think at times we all overthink this game, especially with the matchpoint justification ruse. Looking at a singleton spade while knowing that partner cannot hold a 4-card major and that as a partnership we are guaranteed to have at minimum an 8-card minor fit, only the MJR allows us to convince ourselves it might be right to pass 1N!

Not to worry, though. We have all done it - some of us many times.

[kenberg]

Antrax, on 2014-May-01, 07:00, said:

Your second diagram is reversed (shows N dealer instead of S).
For the first, I guess open the hand 1NT?

I put in a couple of passes, although I think S was dealer.

If I open 1NT I really don't see N transferring t clubs. With five of his 8 points outside of the club suit, I expect he just puts it in 3NT. Or maybe invites.

[ahydra]

On that first hand, you don't want to be in 6C on a finesse. Passing is wimpish, 2C is reasonable. (Recall that in standard bidding a simple rebid by opener is wide-ranging, 11-18 or thereabouts, so responder must give false preference with ~8 HCPs)

Second hand - you bid OK in absence of agreements, until 5D which is rather wild (why not just 4, since you don't know if West is doubling on strength)? To be honest I don't like double of 2C with no agreement, partner could well pass!! Probably 3H is better. Then after your 3NT, partner can try 4D which should be "choice of games - but 3NT isn't one of them". I think that's sensible given that it's unlikely you'll be able to establish enough tricks before opponents have their clubs established.

ahydra

[kenberg]

Winstonm, on 2014-May-01, 07:11, said:

I think at times we all overthink this game, especially with the matchpoint justification ruse. Looking at a singleton spade while knowing that partner cannot hold a 4-card major and that as a partnership we are guaranteed to have at minimum an 8-card minor fit, only the MJR allows us to convince ourselves it might be right to pass 1N!

Not to worry, though. We have all done it - some of us many times.

True enough, I don't like leaving it in 1NT. So you do what?

2♣? The hand is a bit heavy for that, is it not?
3♣? The hand is a bit light for that, is it not?
2♥? I don't think so.

That was my dilemma.How do you envision the auction going?

[kenberg]

ahydra, on 2014-May-01, 07:15, said:

On that first hand, you don't want to be in 6C on a finesse. Passing is wimpish, 2C is reasonable. (Recall that in standard bidding a simple rebid by opener is wide-ranging, 11-18 or thereabouts, so responder must give false preference with ~8 HCPs)

Second hand - you bid OK in absence of agreements, until 5D which is rather wild (why not just 4, since you don't know if West is doubling on strength)? To be honest I don't like double of 2C with no agreement, partner could well pass!! Probably 3H is better. Then after your 3NT, partner can try 4D which should be "choice of games - but 3NT isn't one of them". I think that's sensible given that it's unlikely you'll be able to establish enough tricks before opponents have their clubs established.

ahydra

Second hand
I was the NT opener here. When partner doubled 2♣ I hoped it was Stayman but really I had no idea. I figured I didn't really want to play 2♣ X, or probably I didn't, so, let's hope, partner will probably figure 2♦ denies a major. I had no clue about what 3♣ was intended as.

On the first, maybe 2♣ is right. I think of 1♦-1♠-2♣ as wide ranging, I think of 1♦-1NT-2♣ as much less wide ranging. In the case of the 1♠ response it is, itself, wide ranging and so opener has less to go on. When it begins 1♦-1NT, responder's hand falls into a narrower range. It's true that I would expect responder, if he had his likely four clubs and maybe an 8 count, to raise my 2♣ to 3♣. So maybe I should have done that. On this hand he has six clubs, but will we reach 5♣? Maybe.

And right, I don't want to be in 6. As mentioned, I was joking.

[whereagles]

Hand 1: you can bid 2♣, intending to follow-up with 2♥ over a 2♦ preference. Another option is 2♥, which gives a better picture of your HCP strength. If pard now signs off, stick to it.

Hand 2: too much randomness involved. Just forget it

[kenberg]

whereagles, on 2014-May-01, 07:37, said:

Hand 1: you can bid 2♣, intending to follow-up with 2♥ over a 2♦ preference. Another option is 2♥, which gives a better picture of your HCP strength. If pard now signs off, stick to it.

Hand 2: too much randomness involved. Just forget it

I certainly agree with the thoughts about hand 2.

I am coming to think 2♣ is right on hand 1. I don't really care for 2♥ over 1NT. I don't know if the spade Q is actually worth anything, I don't have a fifth diamond etc.

I am still looking for an auction that gets us reasonably to 5♣. Obviously responder would not pass a 2♣ rebid with the hand he has. Perhaps he contents himself with raising to 3♣, now I bid my hearts with 3♥ which I think shows heart values and concern about spades if playing in NT. Now we get there. 1♦-1NT-2♣-3♣-3♥-5♣ maybe?

[Winstonm]

kenberg, on 2014-May-01, 07:17, said:

True enough, I don't like leaving it in 1NT. So you do what?

2♣? The hand is a bit heavy for that, is it not?
3♣? The hand is a bit light for that, is it not?
2♥? I don't think so.

That was my dilemma.How do you envision the auction going?

Knowing my opps hold at least 9 spades between them yet both passed, I see no reason to be compelled to force the auction any higher than 2C. If partner has a good fit and a maximum, he can bid on knowing the range of a 2C rebid is quite flexible.

I would expect most of the time to find that partner passes 2C or corrects to 2D, and opps balance with 2S. I would then compete to the 3 level.

Again, in my quite personal opinion, we tend to overthink matchpoints, forgetting that it is still, after all, bridge.

[MickyB]

kenberg, on 2014-May-01, 07:47, said:

1♦-1NT-2♣-3♣-3♥-5♣ maybe?

Looks good.

Winstonm, on 2014-May-01, 07:59, said:

Again, in my quite personal opinion, we tend to overthink matchpoints, forgetting that it is still, after all, bridge.

Agreed. I think the bidding at MP/IMPs is far more similar than most people realise. Now, matchpoints/BAM/hybrid scoring where 10 points counts as a tie - there's a game that requires a different approach.

[kenberg]

I think mps/imps affects my play far more often than it effects my bidding. With a more modest hand than what I held, I would have bit 2♣ in an instant. After 1♦-1NT, it is known that responder holds at least four cards in at least one minor. And for that matter, 2m making 3 scores better at mps than 1NT making 1. In this particular case I took a shot, and through dumb luck it worked out.

My guess is that after 1♦-1NT-2♣ the next call by responder will fairly often be at the 3 level. The op ponents hae not come into this so there is a fair chance responder has around 9 points rather than around 7. Surely with four clubs he will raise 2♣ to 3 fairly often, and with four diamonds he also may feel that 2♦ does not do justice to his hand. Often opener has fie diamonds on the auction 1♦-1NT-2♣ and I would think responder, with four diamonds and a 9 count, would want to distinguish this had from a 6 count.

With the hands we held above, I now think that
1♦-1NT-2♣-3♣-3♥-5♣ sounds pretty much right.

[mike777]

perhaps on the first one:

1nt=3c(invite)
5c

[gszes]

If we were to move 1 small club over to the spade suit you would
probably have zero problems opening 1n and bidding 3n if p were
to invite game. The present hand is just as good and even a tad
better. The only problem is trying to imagine the best way to
bid this collection. The opening 1d bid is fine and gets your
side off to a good start and after p bids 1n (max 33 in the majors)
you know your side has at least 1 if not two minor suit fit(s) and
that makes this hand just a little bit better. Not good enough to
force to game but surely good enough to invite. The best way to
continue here seems to be

2h

This bid leaves you well placed to continue the bidding no matter what
your partner bids next. If p bids
2s you bid 2n
2n 3c
3c 4c
3d 4c though pass is reasonable since 5d is still far away.
3h 5c
3s 5c
3n wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee pass

[TheoKole]

For the first hand you asked what should my rebid be. The answer is simple, 2 1/2 ♣ seems to be perfect. Seriously though, these (not so strong) 3-suiters are notoriously difficult to bid. I tend to underbid them a little rather than overbid them until I get raised with a fit, if I find one then I cue bid and look for the perfect hand for a slam.

If the bidding had gone 1 ♦ 1 ♠ then I would undervalue the hand as a potential misfit and bid 2 ♣, however on the bidding 1 ♦ 1 NT, partner will have a good minor suit fit almost 100% of the time so I am projecting our known fit by bidding 3 ♣ as a rebid. I can sympathize with you for passing 1 NT at MP's but I just cant see it with a singleton honor in ♠ which may be wasted (the south hand as dummy will tend to play at least 2 tricks better in a suit contract.

I don't think you should have bid 6 ♣ even at MP's unless you are shooting for a top which might happen anyways by bidding a good distributional game and having correctly evaluated the hand. On the Ace of ♠ lead and a ♦ switch or a ♦ lead the hand rests on the trump finesse which will lead to book or -2, true that the same play in 5 ♣ will mean +1 or -1 but you don't know this at the time of bidding. Maybe we should describe this hand as a 4 or 6 hand?

On the second hand, I guess I agree with you that a little luck can be great for your overall score.

Good luck, Theo

[kenberg]

The 6♣ comment was intended as humor. Interchange the 9 and T of that suit and it doesn't make. Generally after I pass 1NT my partner can expect that he can compete with 3♣ without having to worry that I will go bezerk and raise to 5, let alone 6. But here I did raise to 5 and miracle of miracles it made 6. No doubt part of the explanation is that I had no business passing 1NT in the first place. Anyway, the 6♣ comment was my attempt at bridge humor. Probably I am not on the short list to replace Colbert.