Help
Partner and I had some confusion over a basic sequence last night.
1m (1♠) X (P)
3♠
I assumed this was asking about a NT stopper (bid 3N if you have it), he thought it was a ♠ splinter in support of ♥.
Upon reflection, I realize that if partner wants to know if I have spades stopped, it's possible to get that through 2♠ which should elicit that from me if we allow that it's not automatically a strong heart raise.
But...questions for the collective wisdom of BBOF:
1. Does the splinter use of 3♠ sound right, are we missing anything?
2. Do we need to limit 2♠ to showing game-force heart support, or can it reasonably be used to find out about a ♠ stopper?
3. If 4th-seat had bid 2♠, I assume 3♠ is best played as asking about NT stopper...agreed?
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Cue-bid in response to negative X
#1
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Posted 2014-April-23, 09:38
#2
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Posted 2014-April-23, 09:59
1) SPL sounds sensible because 2S can ask for the stop.
2) 2S could be any big hand - not necessarily game-forcing, though in this sequence it probably should be. One of the main uses is to find out about a spade stop, e.g. a 17 BAL (or 18, if playing 15-17 NT) that does not have one. Very big hands that are not two-suited e.g. 5431, 4441 might also bid 2S, but the primary focus is on finding a stop.
3) Agree.
On a side note what's with all the multiposts? This topic has two copies, another one in this forum has six!
ahydra
2) 2S could be any big hand - not necessarily game-forcing, though in this sequence it probably should be. One of the main uses is to find out about a spade stop, e.g. a 17 BAL (or 18, if playing 15-17 NT) that does not have one. Very big hands that are not two-suited e.g. 5431, 4441 might also bid 2S, but the primary focus is on finding a stop.
3) Agree.
On a side note what's with all the multiposts? This topic has two copies, another one in this forum has six!
ahydra
#3
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Posted 2014-April-23, 17:00
To me
3♠ is splinter
2♠ is a gate to express one of a lot of strong hand types, including strong balanced hands without a stopper.
1 NT by opener does not warrant a stopper nor denies it. It shows the shape such as xxx Ax Kxxxx KQx. If you are not comfortable with this you may bid 2♣ or 2♦ but they have their own problems and if anyone thinks they are minor problems, I disagree with them. If you bid 1NT w/o a stopper you have plenty of room to investigate it if necessary.
3♠ is splinter
2♠ is a gate to express one of a lot of strong hand types, including strong balanced hands without a stopper.
1 NT by opener does not warrant a stopper nor denies it. It shows the shape such as xxx Ax Kxxxx KQx. If you are not comfortable with this you may bid 2♣ or 2♦ but they have their own problems and if anyone thinks they are minor problems, I disagree with them. If you bid 1NT w/o a stopper you have plenty of room to investigate it if necessary.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
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"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#4
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Posted 2014-April-24, 07:12
2♠ usually shows a non-descript GF hand (17+ or thereabouts).
3♠ is undiscussed in like 99.9% of partnerships. Usually undiscussed bids are natural, but here it doesn't make much sense. It is a somewhat irresponsible bid because many interpretations are possible, so if stuff goes wrong, perpetrator gets the blame and should be prepared for it.
3♠ is undiscussed in like 99.9% of partnerships. Usually undiscussed bids are natural, but here it doesn't make much sense. It is a somewhat irresponsible bid because many interpretations are possible, so if stuff goes wrong, perpetrator gets the blame and should be prepared for it.
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Posted 2014-April-24, 07:22
The most basic rule for a splinter is an unnecessary jump. Since 2♠ is forcing, 3♠ qualifies under this definition. Therefore I would assume 3♠ is a splinter without any further discussion. As it happens, it is also difficult to come up with a better meaning without getting into something impractically complex. As a challenge to whereagles, what are the "many interpretations" that would be reasonable for a normal pair without special agreements playing a natural bidding system?
(-: Zel :-)
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Posted 2014-April-24, 07:30
whereagles, on 2014-April-24, 07:12, said:
2♠ usually shows a non-descript GF hand (17+ or thereabouts).
3♠ is undiscussed in like 99.9% of partnerships. Usually undiscussed bids are natural, but here it doesn't make much sense. It is a somewhat irresponsible bid because many interpretations are possible, so if stuff goes wrong, perpetrator gets the blame and should be prepared for it.
3♠ is undiscussed in like 99.9% of partnerships. Usually undiscussed bids are natural, but here it doesn't make much sense. It is a somewhat irresponsible bid because many interpretations are possible, so if stuff goes wrong, perpetrator gets the blame and should be prepared for it.
1m-♠-x = I was gonna bid 1♥ pd, now I can't bid it at 2 level because I don't have 5 of them or I don't have enough hcp to bid at 2 level or both.
3♠ is whatever it would be over 1♥. The reason that it is not discussed in %99.9 of the pdships,( if that number is correct, which I strongly believe you just pulled this percentage up from your **** btw) is probably because it is so obvious to everyone else but you.
EDIT: In fact I will go one step further and claim that, 3♠ can be something other than splinter ONLY IF DISCUSSED. When undiscussed it is splinter.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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Posted 2014-April-24, 08:22
Zelandakh, on 2014-April-24, 07:22, said:
what are the "many interpretations" that would be reasonable for a normal pair without special agreements playing a natural bidding system?
Well, I can think of:
1. Splinter in support of hearts
2. Auto splinter with 1-suiter in the opening minor
3. Stopper ask with solid minor
4. A very strong 2-suiter in the minors
I'm pretty sure the list is not exaustive. Obviously, people can always say "hand type XYZ can be bid via [fill-in], so it must be hand type W", but in practice a mix-up is very much possible. Which is why I would refrain from making bids like this (blame-transfer bids). It's not clear they're winning bids.. certain they are not healthy.
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