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responding to a take out double simple responses?

#1 User is offline   stevemale 

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Posted 2014-April-09, 10:46

respoding to a take out double seems not to have been updated in years, polish players only jump with 5+ cards in a suit. whereas our methods(uk) tend to jump with 4 cards and 7/9 points, qith 10 points we cue. what`s the current thinking?
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-April-09, 10:59

American style is that a cue is forcing to suit agreement. Hence, you need a good hand to use it and with a ten count and a four card suit you will have to bid your suit with a jump instead.

A popular style among strong Dutch players is that the jump response suggests a five card suit.

In either case you need a decent nine count for a positive response. This reflects the light modern doubling style
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#3 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2014-April-09, 11:11

Here we play like this.

When a suit can be bid at the 1 level:
1x = 0-7(8)
2x = 9-11, 4 cards (Exceptionally 5 cards with exactly 8)
3x = 9-11, 5 cards

cuebid can only be 2 types of hands: game forcing (12+ any) or invitational with both 4 card majors. So the only non GF sequences after cuebid is 2M-3M-pass.

If the suit cannot be bid at the 1 level, then both invitational bids merge so it is 4 or 5 cards.
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#4 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2014-April-09, 12:26

Herbert Negative.




There! I was the first to say "Herbert Negative!"



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#5 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2014-April-09, 13:48

View Postkenrexford, on 2014-April-09, 12:26, said:

Herbert Negative.




There! I was the first to say "Herbert Negative!"

When I was living in Sweden, a strong Swedish pair played 1NT as Lebensohl.

Rik
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#6 User is offline   lowerline 

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Posted 2014-April-10, 03:06

After (1m) dbl (p) there is something to be said for bidding 2M with a 5crd suit. After (1) dbl (p) I think you should be able to bid 2 on a 4crd suit.
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#7 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2014-April-10, 10:45

Heh. Last night, the auction went p-1-X-p-2 (and then 3-X-AP. Unfortunately I slipped a trick in the defence. Fortunately, it was the second downtrick).

I had no idea how to bid my hand, but I was happy to know that partner knew my shape (and frankly, if I'd gone with my other option which was 2, she'd have known it as well). Thing is we were playing EHAA, so having guaranteed a "good" hand, I implied 4441! Playing standard, how do you bid
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#8 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-April-11, 07:41

So many options.. lol

2
2
2NT)
1NT(!!)
pass!!
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#9 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-April-11, 09:38

View Postmycroft, on 2014-April-10, 10:45, said:

Heh. Last night, the auction went p-1-X-p-2 (and then 3-X-AP. Unfortunately I slipped a trick in the defence. Fortunately, it was the second downtrick).

I had no idea how to bid my hand, but I was happy to know that partner knew my shape (and frankly, if I'd gone with my other option which was 2, she'd have known it as well). Thing is we were playing EHAA, so having guaranteed a "good" hand, I implied 4441! Playing standard, how do you bid
?

Unfortunately there is no "standard" about the 2 cue advancing Partner's takeout double. We use it to deny 4 in the focus Major (Spades). It would show this strength, but pretty much be a Minor-suit scramble. So, I wouldn't do that here because it would propel us blindly to 3NT or 4S and I don't have the information yet to try that.

A really wimpy downgrade to 1 would enter my mind. In this case, it seems like opener will rebid 2C, partner will double, and I can come alive in NT.

But, with my working 5-count plus those hearts, I probably would bid a knee-jerk 2S and pull Partner's double of 3C to 3NT at all white as shown in the diagram.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#10 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2014-April-11, 15:07

View PostTrinidad, on 2014-April-09, 13:48, said:

When I was living in Sweden, a strong Swedish pair played 1NT as Lebensohl.

Rik

This seems like an excellent agreement. The main reason being it stops partner bidding a natural 1NT on a completely unsuitable hand.
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#11 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2014-April-12, 02:47

View PostTrinidad, on 2014-April-09, 13:48, said:

When I was living in Sweden, a strong Swedish pair played 1NT as Lebensohl.
Rik

View PostEricK, on 2014-April-11, 15:07, said:

This seems like an excellent agreement. The main reason being it stops partner bidding a natural 1NT on a completely unsuitable hand.

I play most of the system of a strong Belgian player and this is part of it. We call it Leuvensohl (our club is in Leuven).
(1H)-DBL-?
1S: nat
1NT: Leuvensohl (weak or 4cS)
2C/2D: Nat, 7-10
2H: 11+, no 4cS, no stop
2S: 5cS, Invite
2NT: Nat, no 4cS

(1H)-DBL-(P)-1NT
(P)-2C-(P)-?
- Pass/2D: weak
- 2H: 11+, 4cS, no stop
- 2S: 11+, 4cS, stop

BTW: You can find more bids related to this on http://bss2html.atspace.cc/ by loading <My System> and ticking "Competitive", "Disable undefined bids" and "they open"
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