[Fluffy]

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3♣ is standard game invite with clubs.

druri was available.

You can play the rest of the hand here:

http://www.bridgegod....php?probid=231

[bluecalm]

Very nice hand. I like your site a lot from what I've seen so far. Great job I hope it gets more popular.

[JLOGIC]

Isn't game really bad? I got a bad board compared to the field for missing a crappy game at MP when spades were 3-2 (with Qx), hearts were 3-2, the HK was on, and clubs were 4-3. I did make 5 but my opps misdefended and won the first heart. I guess it's supposed to be like real bridge haha (and to be fair I actually seem to have gotten an average so far, 2 people went down in game and the other guy in 3S only made 10 tricks).

This post has been edited by JLOGIC: 2014-March-24, 15:13

[Fluffy]

I got a top in 450 when my partner bid game with this, but 200 would had been a cold top just as well. They didn't duck ♥A on real life so I did not do that here, but it is interesting to lead ♥J when you hold ♥Qx in hand

[JLOGIC]

Fluffy, on 2014-March-24, 15:16, said:

I got a top in 450 when my partner bid game with this, but 200 would had been a cold top just as well.

Yeah, on top of bidding game just being horrible hand evaluation, this is another reason that it's bad to do so. There is really no need to stretch to some really thin game at MP when if partner plays it really well to make 10 or 11 tricks you are getting a near top anyways. The risk/reward is just way off.

It seems to me like people have absurdly bad judgement over game tries. They look only at the suit partner showed, and if they have something that looks good they bid game regardless of anything else. Part of the problem is most holdings that aren't xxx have some upside to people. Kx? Sure looks good. Axx? Awesome. Qxxx? Great. xx? Maybe we can ruff some stuff. Etc. And the other problem is, of course the rest of the hand matters. I mean which hand is more likely to make game opposite a game try in clubs, xxx Axxx Axx xxx, or Jxx JT9xx Jxx Kx? Obviously the first hand, it's a much better hand. In general with a complete max you always bid a game, partner has game tried, and with a complete min you never bid a game, but you see people doing stuff like signing off with 3 small and a max hand, or bidding game with a yarborough with Kx of clubs all the time. Then they use words like HELP SUIT and ASKING bids etc lol.

If people just thought in normal terms like "ok my partner has 5S and 4C and about 16, how likely are we to make game?" or w/e like we think about in all other scenarios, rather than OMG WHAT ARE MY CLUBS, they would do a lot better. On this hand it was very lucky that the JT9 of hearts were all working so that game even had any play, and even then partner just gets tapped and we have no entries and it's really awful. Imagine how bad it would be opposite the (much more likely) hand of AKxxx x Kxx AQxx

And one more thing about my rant, the gradations of game tries should be accept, reject, and counter game try. So someone who bid 3S on this hand instead of say 3H is saying that of those 3 ranges, they have the BEST. In my opinion it's a clear worst but at least counter game try if you want to show life, don't bid 4S. Also, it is probably correct in this auction when you have 2 counter tries available for 1 to just be totally artificial to avoid information leakage.

[MrAce]

Agreed.

I ended up playing 3♠ as well for +200.

[bluecalm]

I bid 3H but yeah it seem too optimistic when I think about it now.

[nige1]

Thank you Fluffy for an interesting hand; and JLOGIC for amusing and instructive analysis. Unimportant quibble: on the BridgeGod site, 4♠-5 scores -100

[Lord Molyb]

I signed off with my 10 loser hand and made 5. I am glad to see I am not alone here.

[Fluffy]

nige1, on 2014-March-25, 06:18, said:

Thank you Fluffy for an interesting hand; and JLOGIC for amusing and instructive analysis. Unimportant quibble: on the BridgeGod site, 4♠-5 scores -100

When it says 5 tricks it means 5 defensive tricks actually, so -100. It is a bug I have since long ago and I though I had catched it already, but seems I was wrong :/