[eagles123]

Matchpoints

---

In terms of skill level, would say P is intermediate, East is intermediate/advance, W is beginner (suffering from alzhimers, sadly)

what to do here?

Thanks,

Eagles

[MrAce]

3♦ or pass

What other reasonable choice do we have except than these 2 ?

I would bid 3♦, anticipating a heart shortness in pd's hand, he will usually hold 2 or more diamonds even if does not have a stiff heart.We may push them to 3 level or we may make our contract. With the level of players you indicated, i think 3♦ is not even a big bid and pd won't get excited. If he gets excited the values he will provide may do the job.

[the hog]

This is an obvious pass. Your Ds are not good enough for a 3D bid. I suspect pd is weak with long S.

[sfi]

Partner has a weak hand - probably very weak. We know partner has short hearts and likely 5+ spades, yet they passed over 1H.

If I pass here I'm likely to be faced with a 2S balancing bid, and it's worth thinking about what to do then. Passing again means we'll be in a poor fit, but 3D highlights the possible misfit to the opponents and increases our chances of being doubled. On the other hand, partner may surprise me and do something else, like double or raise diamonds.

Bidding probably overstates our hand, but not by a huge amount. We'll be fine if partner decides to raise with a stiff heart and a few diamonds. We're only in trouble if we genuinely walk into a misfit and they can double us, and that is less likely if I bid now than later. Since I'm going to bid in either case, let's try 3D now. Maybe we get lucky and partner has a stiff heart and Kxxx in diamonds, and game rolls home. Maybe they declare hearts and lose extra tricks by playing partner for the trump length.

[kenberg]

I pass. I think that the general situation has been well described by previous posters so it's just a matter of which way to jump. I am going to pass. I don't expect to beat 2♥ but really I don't expect to beat 3♥ either. Perhaps my left hand opponent is about to make a game try. Let him. Maybe they will find their eight card spade fit and play in it. Ok by me.

[akwoo]

OP is in weak NT land, right?

Maybe I am overgeneralizing from K-S to Acol, but I bid 3♦.

If I pass, partner is overwhelmingly likely to play me for a strong NT, which might mean bidding 3♠ over opponents' next bid. A bid of 3♦ will warn partner off without much risk, especially given you have good intermediates.

Perhaps I'm giving your partner too much credit, but one of the big advantages of playing a weak NT is the ability to compete in these situations knowing that opener either has a distributional hand or 15+ balanced.

[MrAce]

akwoo, on 2014-January-07, 19:12, said:

OP is in weak NT land, right?

Maybe I am overgeneralizing from K-S to Acol, but I bid 3♦.

If I pass, partner is overwhelmingly likely to play me for a strong NT, which might mean bidding 3♠ over opponents' next bid. A bid of 3♦ will warn partner off without much risk, especially given you have good intermediates.

Perhaps I'm giving your partner too much credit, but one of the big advantages of playing a weak NT is the ability to compete in these situations knowing that opener either has a distributional hand or 15+ balanced.

I do not understand this at all. Why would we assume that OP is using weak NT when he did not mention it. Regardless of which land you live, i think weak NT is mentioned in BBF land.

But lets agree for the sake of argument that what you said is correct and they play weak NT. Why would my pd play me for a strong NT ? I think he will think i have a hand with 3-4 hearts any shape that can not make a reasonable bid.

I agree with 3♦ for the reasons i wrote previously and more, but totally different reasons than yours.

It all depends on what score we expect to get at MP and how much of a balance fan our intermediate pd is. If i had an adv+ pd i could pass too, but knowing how people find excuses to pass each time auction comes to them, i am not confident that pd will balance. I don't even know how many bean count pd thinks it is appropriate to have in order to start DBL previous round with 4 spades.

Pretty much by passing (assuming that pd is not a balancing fan) i am aiming for the hands that 2♥ does not make and 3♦ does not make . And if he has a good fit and some values and raises to 4, i will have worse result than -110 ? Yes we may get doubled and go down some numbers when we are playing vs a beginner and an int+ opponent. It ain't gonna happen. Yes we would prefer to have better diamonds but bridge in real life and text book hands are two different worlds. We may defeat them in 2♥ by our hand taking 4 tricks, may be a ruff too and a trick or two by pd, just to see defeating them by 2 and getting +100 was not as good as +110 or +130.

We may even get away with doubled -1 for -100 when they are making 2♥ if we bid 3♦

I would take the 3♦ bid on any day over pass under these circumstances, which are

- not sure pd will balance,
- one of the defenders is beginner
- anticipating heart shortness by pd, hence 2+ diamonds
-MP
-We may push them 1 higher
-If they don't lead trump, i can ruff the ***** out major suits. And it is not even remotely auto to lead trump when one is holding Kx/ KTx /Ax/ ATx/

[rmnka447]

The opponents have a fit, but are going to find a bad break. Nonetheless, you know partner can't have more than 1 ♥. It's likely your side has a fit, and the most likely strain for the fit is ♦.

Partner likely doesn't have much if overcaller has a solid overcall and advancer has a max raise. But that's not guaranteed.

Unless the opponent's find an inspired trump lead, I'd rate the prospects of making 3 ♦ pretty good.

So, at matchpoints, I think it's right to compete with a 3 ♦ bid. It does several things:

- gets you to a likely reasonable spot to play,

- may push the opponents up a level in ♥, and,

- may hinder the opponents from finding a better secondary ♠ fit.

I'll take the occasional -300 when an opponent has a ♦ stack. I gladly trade it for the results when partner shows up with a trick and 3 ♥ is off, but 2 ♥ makes or when 3 ♦ buys the contract -- makes or is off one when 2 of a Major makes.

[helene_t]

Opps (one of whom is a beginner suffering from Altzheimer) bid a suit that I have, while nobody bids the suit in which I am void …..

I have seen this so many times before. Opps are going down in 2♥ while they could have made 10 or 11 tricks in spades.

Against better opps … what about a lead-directing 3♣? Yes I know it could lead to three or four down against air. But partner could have five clubs, or they might double so I can get back to 3♦.

[MrAce]

helene_t, on 2014-January-08, 05:29, said:

Opps (one of whom is a beginner suffering from Altzheimer) bid a suit that I have, while nobody bids the suit in which I am void …..

I have seen this so many times before. Opps are going down in 2♥ while they could have made 10 or 11 tricks in spades.

If they are ever gonna find that 9-10 card spade fit after settling in hearts, that would be if you give chance to them bid spades at 2 level.

helene_t, on 2014-January-08, 05:29, said:

Against better opps … what about a lead-directing 3♣? Yes I know it could lead to three or four down against air. But partner could have five clubs, or they might double so I can get back to 3♦.

You are definitely one of my best posters that i follow. Unlike you, i think you are over thinking this.

Why are you in a hurry to get your club tricks ? Where do you think they are dumping their club losers ? I think it would help if pd is about to lead from Ax(x) ♦ and the K was on our left, but this is kinda small target. And if that was the case we would be fine for bidding 3♦. You may hit the jackpot though if pd has x(x) ♦ and 5-6 clubs.

[nige1]

eagles123, on 2014-January-07, 17:36, said:

Matchpoints
In terms of skill level, would say P is intermediate, East is intermediate/advance, W is beginner (suffering from alzhimers, sadly) what to do here?

---

3♦ = 10, Pass = 9, 3♣ = 7. Perhaps eagles123 imples that West's bid is a mistake.

[mikeh]

I think we have to bid 3♦. I may be largely duplicating Mr. Ace in my arguments, but the way I see it is that partner rates to have some diamond length. Now, there is a possibility that EW have gone astray....maybe West has raised with short hearts and long spades, but we cannot, in a mp field, start assuming that the opps have made a basic error until we have some clear evidence that they have done so. Thus we place the opps with 8 or 9 hearts. Partner would need very little indeed to bid over 1♥ with very long spades, so either he has at least some diamond support or he has a pronounced weak black 2-suiter. If the latter, then maybe bidding will fail, but not always.

Bear in mind that most opps are going to lead hearts, not trumps, when we bid 3♦, assuming they pass. They won't be reasoning that we bid as we did because we have long hearts, especially if they are non-expert. On a non-trump lead, I rate to do extremely well: give partner xxxxx x xx xxxxx, which is a hideous hand, and I am ruffing 2 hearts in dummy, and returning to my hand with spade ruffs (in order to score as many trumps as I can, and finally playing out my top clubs. I'd expect to make 9 tricks most of the time.

Not only do we rate to do well in diamonds when partner has nothing, including no real fit, but we may hit a home run in at least 2 other ways.

Partner may have a near-raise...bearing in mind that often times a 1♦ opener in a standard method will be 3+ cards, and in most other natural methods, only 4+, and partner may well pass the overcall with something like xxxx x Kxx Qxxxx. Now, will we reach 5♦ if I bid 3? I don't know, but I do know that we have no chance of doing so if I pass over 2♥.

Another way to win is when they over-compete in hearts: I'd far rather defend 3♥ than 2.

I think the arguments for bidding are so powerful that I'd bid 3♦ in both mps and imps.

Yes, we can end up with a poor result, but that is true everytime we pick up a bridge hand. Assuming either that partner has exactly the wrong hand or that the opps can see through the backs of our cards is playing scared, and nobody ever won anything by playing scared. When a certified chicken such as me sees bidding as clear it should be REALLY clear to everyone else

[P_Marlowe]

3D.

I am not passing, and if I dont, this is the only bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mycroft]

MrAce, on 2014-January-07, 20:29, said:

I do not understand this at all. Why would we assume that OP is using weak NT when he did not mention it. Regardless of which land you live, i think weak NT is mentioned in BBF land.

First, "UK near London" makes it likely that you're in flip-a-coin territory, if nothing else. At least it was for me way back when. Which leads to:
Second, Because he's posted before and we remember him.

In general, yes, I would agree with you. But in this particular case, I've got him in "Acol unless he tells us he's changed system" territory. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[eagles123]

nige1, on 2014-January-08, 09:42, said:

3♦ = 10, Pass = 9, 3♣ = 7. Perhaps eagles123 imples that West's bid is a mistake.

Hi, I wasn't trying to imply anything, just simply letting ppl know the skill level of the players on the table. Will reveal more later

[kenberg]

eagles123, on 2014-January-08, 15:49, said:

Hi, I wasn't trying to imply anything, just simply letting ppl know the skill level of the players on the table. Will reveal more later

Just out of curiosity, am I correct in assuming that third hand, with Kxxxxx in spades and nothing else, could or would have bid 2♠? I am thinking he has exactly five spades on the grounds that the opponents presumably have not missed their nine card fit so he has at least five, and he could have made a WJS if he had six. Of course there may be some minimum count for even a WJS but six spades and a stiff heart would seem close to good enough all on it's own.

About the stiff heart: I have overcalled on four, I have been raised on three. It doesn't happen often, but it happens. I'll assume an eight card heart fit though. If he has seven cards in the minors we have to have a fit in one of them, but which?

Anyway, I still pass. I can see where I might look foolish, but what else is new?