[ahydra]

Both vul, East deals, both sides are playing weak NT with 4cM.

---

What's your call? (You're playing generally natural methods.)

ahydra

[ggwhiz]

2♥ is enough for me...... for now.

This auction is most definitely not over. If pard has only 4 cards in hearts this hand really isn't very good. I hope to hear about possible long hearts or get a 3♦ bid in next.

[ahydra]

The actual bid chosen at the table was 2S - any views on that?

ahydra

[StevenG]

I've been waiting for better players than I to comment on this, but there isn't much interest.

My instinct is just to blast 4♥ on the hand. I'm assuming partner has useful extras for his bid, otherise what's the point of it? So partner either has more than four hearts or useful diamond support. Where are the spades? I've got none, and they are East's second suit. Partner isn't marked with too many either, so West must have a lot to go with his presumed bust. If I'm not active here, West isn't going to have to guess how high to bid. It's not going to be easy for partner whatever I do, so I'd rather describe my hand as quickly as possible to give him the best chance.

Is my logic completely crazy?

I don't care for the 2♠ bid actually made. Maybe it's OK if you have really clear understandings of what it should mean, but it would be too ambiguous for me. Partner needs help here, anything that's ambivalent about direction isn't my choice.

[ggwhiz]

StevenG, on 2013-September-22, 07:00, said:

Is my logic completely crazy?

Not at all but I expect one of the opps is going to bid 4♠ maybe doubled back to you where you have to make the last guess. I picked the slow route hoping to find diamonds or longer hearts before I have to decide but may well face 2♥ - 4♠ - pass or double back to me and I'll probably shoot 5♦ then.

[quiddity]

I don't like 2♠; it shows high card values which I don't have and I don't think it even promises heart support. It sounds like it could be a strong hand showing a stopper, trying to get to 3NT. If they bid 4♠ and partner doubles I have no idea what to do.

Probably I would bid 3♠; now I've shown the 4-card support, 5+ diamonds and short spades. If partner doubles them in 4♠ I can probably sit for it. Meanwhile we can still have a slam opposite some moderate hands if partner has controls in the minors, and 3♠ gives us a better chance to find it rather than blasting 4♥. 4♦ is another possibility - in some auctions that would show 6+ diamonds and 4-card heart support. I'm not sure it applies here, and even if it does it may suggest stronger diamonds and weaker hearts.

[RGranville]

quiddity, on 2013-September-22, 13:21, said:

I don't like 2♠; it shows high card values which I don't have and I don't think it even promises heart support. It sounds like it could be a strong hand showing a stopper, trying to get to 3NT. If they bid 4♠ and partner doubles I have no idea what to do.

Probably I would bid 3♠; now I've shown the 4-card support, 5+ diamonds and short spades. If partner doubles them in 4♠ I can probably sit for it. Meanwhile we can still have a slam opposite some moderate hands if partner has controls in the minors, and 3♠ gives us a better chance to find it rather than blasting 4♥. 4♦ is another possibility - in some auctions that would show 6+ diamonds and 4-card heart support. I'm not sure it applies here, and even if it does it may suggest stronger diamonds and weaker hearts.

I also prefer the jump to 3♠, for the reasons stated above. I'm not so keen on 4♦, since 3♠ shows the crucial spade shortage and also gives partner more room.

[gszes]

I have sufficient values for a

4h

call and I do not wish to show power I do not have. There seems to
be little benefit to bidding some number of spades which just makes
it easier for lho to x to show support. Yes indeed p may have the perfect
hand for us xxxx Qxxxx Ax Ax and we roll for making 7 but if p has anything
less six may be in peril so we are most likely far better off making sure
the opps have the least opportunity possible to find a spade sac.

[MrAce]

ahydra, on 2013-September-22, 05:45, said:

The actual bid chosen at the table was 2S - any views on that?

ahydra

Sry i was late to this topic. What is the scoring ?

At IMPs i would never stop before 4♥ and i would like to bid it asap, w/o passing the ball back and forth too much on the way. Imho 2♥ is something i will not make comment, it would simply not occur to me tbh, 3♥ perfectly reasonable alternative at mp imo. Or some sp;inter bids if available.

2♠ is a big error...first of all, among other things, 2♠ bid will put us in extremely unfortunate position, if they decide to bid 4♠ before it comes to us. Especially if pd has doubled them.

- You do not have the strength that your pd thinks you have for that bid (unless the hand that we hold is close to max over call in our style) Defensive values are about 1.5 tricks.

-Your strength comes from your shape, not from your hcps , so bid it accordingly and pd will know what to do when/if they bid 4♠. Then you will not have to scratch your head when they bid 4♠ and pd doubles. Do not forget pd will be doubling after your cuebid, he could be doubling with a wide variety of hands, as oppose to doubling after our 4♥ which we can rely on with more confident.

[ahydra]

Thanks for the replies all. Sorry, forgot to mention it was MPs.

My partner faced this decision and picked 2S. I had something like ♠Q87x ♥QJxx ♦xx ♣Kxx (not the best advancing hand ever, I'll admit, though within our agreements for 1H) and the auction played out:

---

making for -790 and a bottom (West had a 3-count or something with 5 spades to the J10). As others have said I was anticipating more high-card strength in partner's hand for 2S; but I was just thinking, in partner's position I would have no idea what would be best to bid with the OP hand. On balance I think I would probably opt for 4H like a couple of people have suggested.

Edit: looking at it again perhaps one or both of my 2NT and X were overbids - 1H is about all I can afford on my rubbish hand. Then again, if partner does have 15ish without a spade stop, I felt it was important to let him know I do have one.

ahydra

[suleiman22]

First of all, the one diamond bid is clearly too weak for this hand. If you had bid higher sooner, your opponents would likely have not gotten to four spades and either let you play in hearts or diamonds or gone down hard in another contract. Also, I do not like the 2 heart bid because you have not actually shown your length in ♦. If you had Ax, then you would have had 9 strong diamonds but might have played hearts or let opp overbid in spades.

EDIT: I am sorry my use of pronouns is confusing: By "you" I mean your partner.

[Zelandakh]

1♦ is fine. This overcall always shows a good hand or a good suit (or both). After 1♥ I would not consider anything other than 3♥ or 4♥. 3♠ will probably help them more than us and 2♠ is pretty awful imo. At the table I think I would reflexively bid 4♥. That was certainly my immediate thought. A little further consideration given that it is Game All at MPs argues towards 3♥. But even then I would probably just bid 4♥ and be done with it.

[billw55]

ahydra, on 2013-September-23, 05:20, said:

Thanks for the replies all. Sorry, forgot to mention it was MPs.

My partner faced this decision and picked 2S. I had something like ♠Q87x ♥QJxx ♦xx ♣Kxx (not the best advancing hand ever, I'll admit, though within our agreements for 1H)

Honestly I think that is a really bad 1♥ call. If this is within your agreement, is it forcing or not? With these cards I would not be happy with either.

[ahydra]

billw55, on 2013-September-23, 09:03, said:

Honestly I think that is a really bad 1♥ call. If this is within your agreement, is it forcing or not? With these cards I would not be happy with either.

We play it as encouraging but not 100% forcing. I take it you would pass (fair enough)?

ahydra

[billw55]

ahydra, on 2013-September-23, 09:15, said:

We play it as encouraging but not 100% forcing. I take it you would pass (fair enough)?

ahydra

Yes, sitting north with that hand, I definitely pass throughout, unless partner shows substantial strength. For me the 1♦ overcall by itself has already denied that.

[ggwhiz]

Do you have the opponents hands?

It seems likely that 4♥ could be buried on an early tap and 5♦ not so much. The jack 5th of spades may or may not have the shape for a dive as well.

[ahydra]

ggwhiz, on 2013-September-23, 09:30, said:

Do you have the opponents hands?

It seems likely that 4♥ could be buried on an early tap and 5♦ not so much. The jack 5th of spades may or may not have the shape for a dive as well.

Hmm, it seems I've already misremembered. I recall dummy was 5=3=3=2 so that makes declarer 4=2=1=6, but we didn't get two heart tricks so something must be wrong. Sorry.

ahydra

[ggwhiz]

ahydra, on 2013-September-23, 09:59, said:

Hmm, it seems I've already misremembered. I recall dummy was 5=3=3=2 so that makes declarer 4=2=1=6, but we didn't get two heart tricks so something must be wrong. Sorry.

ahydra

If you didn't get 2 heart tricks and hearts split 4-1 4♥ goes down at least 3

[suleiman22]

Thanks for your reply zelandakh not just here but in other posts. You have already taught me a lot about bridge lol and i have only been a member since yesterday