[barsikb]

Before I read all of your valuable answers, one more question.

How dangerous is opening NT with two bad suits?

The hand:

---

[hrothgar]

 barsikb, on 2013-July-30, 18:15, said:

Before I read all of your valuable answers, one more question.

How dangerous is opening NT with two bad suits?

The hand:

---

Long long ago, in a galaxy far far away, NT openings required both balanced shape and a stopper in all four suits.
Over time, the requirement to have stoppers in all suits was dropped.

Correspondingly, its quite awkward if your non NT opening need to devote sequences that describe a balanced hand with the same range as your NT opening.

As a result, if you are playing a 15-17 HCP 1NT opening, you're pretty much stuck opening 1NT with the hand in question.
Occasionally something bad will happen, but in the long run the pros of this approach outweigh the occasional bad result.

[mcphee]

I tend to avoid opening NT with 2 suits wide open, even though 10 3rd can be of help I open a diamond in this situation prepared to have the odd poor outcome. I would be happier if it was 3 clubs and 2 diamonds, as the extra room permits for a sounder auction.

[billw55]

That's a 100% 1NT opener in my book. In particular with both majors, I am very happy to get in to our NT systems. But I would also open 1NT with xx xxx AKxx AKQx without hesitation.

[Cyberyeti]

When a hand is smack in the middle of your 1N range, if you decide to open something else, you compromise your system. Some people do this with a weak no trump where a 12-16 1N rebid is played and you could do similar with a strong no trump but I really don't like that approach. If you open 1m what are you going to do over a 1N response ? probably pass. Partner will have his usual xx, Qxx, Jxxx, KQJ10 and 3N will be cold with the field bidding 3N in their sleep after opening 1N. If you raise 1N to 2N, partner will have a 5 or 6 count and the field will be in 1N.

[ArtK78]

 hrothgar, on 2013-July-30, 19:02, said:

Long long ago, in a galaxy far far away, NT openings required both balanced shape and a stopper in all four suits.
Over time, the requirement to have stoppers in all suits was dropped.

Correspondingly, its quite awkward if your non NT opening need to devote sequences that describe a balanced hand with the same range as your NT opening.

As a result, if you are playing a 15-17 HCP 1NT opening, you're pretty much stuck opening 1NT with the hand in question.
Occasionally something bad will happen, but in the long run the pros of this approach outweigh the occasional bad result.

Even Goren only required stoppers in 3 of the 4 suits for a 1NT opening. There are not a whole lot of 1NT openings with full stoppers in all 4 suits.

[lycier]

 barsikb, on 2013-July-30, 18:15, said:

Before I read all of your valuable answers, one more question.

How dangerous is opening NT with two bad suits?

The hand:

---

This is a unbalanced hand due to unbalanced distribution in hcp,so can't open 1nt.
but open 1nt should promise balance hand.

[helene_t]

You can't be criticised for opening 1NT with this hand and I would do the same.

But OTOH it wouldn't surprise me hugely if a study showed that opening in a suit with this kind of hands is a long-term winner. The disadvantages are obvious: we will be stuck if partner responds 1NT, and sometimes also if opps overcall in the other minor. On the other hand it is likely to be better to get a notrump or major suit contract in partner's hand.

[hrothgar]

 ArtK78, on 2013-July-31, 09:13, said:

Even Goren only required stoppers in 3 of the 4 suits for a 1NT opening. There are not a whole lot of 1NT openings with full stoppers in all 4 suits.

Plenty of bidding systems back before Goren...

The official system, the 4 Aces, etc.

I don't have time to go back and unpack / peruse any of these, but I remember being shocked at the requirements for a NT opening...

[Zelandakh]

Some pretty bad N/B advice in this thread imho.

Just open 1NT. If you have enough for game then partner is guaranteed to bring some values in the minors. If not then you might easily still make 1NT after they run a suit. More to the point, the losses from the compromises you make elsewhere in the system by not opening 1NT are just not worth it. A very long time ago it was not uncommon for text books to suggest something other than 1NT on this kind of hand. Those days are long gone and (afaik) there are very few, possible no, world class players using such a style in modern bridge.

Here is a simple rule for bidding - show your hand type and shape first. Here your hand type is "balanced" and you have the correct strength range for a 1NT opening. Doing anything else would be selling your hand as unbalanced. That not only leaves you badly placed after a 1NT response, as pointed out by several posters already, it also makes it more difficult for your partner to work out what you have if they have a strong hand, or if the bidding becomes competitive. Here you have an additional disadvantage, in that your alternative opening bid would be 1♦ and you really do not want to suggest a diamond lead if LHO overcalls clubs and gets to play it. Nor do you want partner stretching to show diamond support over club intervention. Opening this hand 1♦ just strikes me as a really bad idea.

[CamHenry]

I'd go so far as to say that if you're going to treat this as unbalanced, you should open it 1♠ and rebid ♥. Sure, that promises 5=4, but it's the sort of hand where a 4-3 major fit (spades in particular) has a lot of appeal. The other advantage of this approach is that, if partner's minors are both KJxx, the lead will come up to them in NT.

[helene_t]

 CamHenry, on 2013-August-01, 04:55, said:

I'd go so far as to say that if you're going to treat this as unbalanced, you should open it 1♠ and rebid ♥.

Yes but what to do after
1♠-1NT
2♥-2♠
?

[chasetb]

 helene_t, on 2013-August-01, 05:03, said:

Yes but what to do after
1♠-1NT
2♥-2♠
?

Because this is the Novice/Beginner forum, I would open it 1NT. For any other player, I would recommend 1♥ and treat it like a 4531. I know it isn't ideal, but partner is the one we actually want to play 3NT, since it's likely (s)he has tenaces we want to protect on opening lead.

[Free]

To everyone below expert class bridge I would recommend to open 1NT any day, there's no reason to overthink stuff and make things more complicated than it already is. The requirements of a standard 1NT opening are: 15-17HCP (check) with a 4333/4432/5332 distribution (check).

[1eyedjack]

 chasetb, on 2013-August-01, 15:05, said:

Because this is the Novice/Beginner forum, I would open it 1NT. For any other player, I would recommend 1♥ and treat it like a 4531. I know it isn't ideal, but partner is the one we actually want to play 3NT, since it's likely (s)he has tenaces we want to protect on opening lead.

Danger of overthinking this. I don't consider myself a beginner or intermediate but I would open it 1N, assuming of course that it is in range for the system of the moment.
Rightsiding the contract is very laudable. But it is not always critical, and being in the right contract tends to be more important than rightsiding the wrong one.

[Winstonm]

Bridge scoring rewards games and slams, and thus bidding should be geared to getting to games and slams. The problem with this type hand is that if you open 1S, a 2H rebid is then an underbid and a jump to 3 hearts is an overbid. The only way to show your shape and strength in one bid is to open 1N - this allows your partner to determine how high to bid, and if he has a 4-card major, he can search for a fit along the way.

The fear of two open suits is highly overrated. Partner's cards have to be somewhere other than where yours are.

[helene_t]

 Winstonm, on 2013-August-04, 09:08, said:

The problem with this type hand is that if you open 1S, a 2H rebid is then an underbid and a jump to 3 hearts is an overbid.

huh? 2♥ is not an underbid, it shows 11-17 points.

[gwnn]

Whenever someone says that '2x is an underbid and 3x is an overbid,' they are wrong on at least on one but very often both counts

[P_Marlowe]

Open 1NT.

Is it daangerous: sure, but so is everything else.

Opening 1NT does not say, you want to play 1NT, it does not say, that you are
able to take 7 tricks, it just says, I have 15-17HCP, balanced shape.

The reason for opening 1NT is simple

#1 if you dont, you postpone the issue one round later, what do you rebid, if partner
does not bid a major of yours?
What do you do, over 1NT, not opening 1NT made the weaker hand the declaring hand?
How to you differentiate your hand from a hand an Ace weaker / stronger?

#2 you have lots of agreements in place after a 1NT opening bid, why not give your
self the chance to use the best developed part of your system?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[the hog]

Regardless of the forum, this is a 1NT opener.
Do you have a balanced hand? Yes!
Does it fall into the point range for 1NT? Yes
Do you have a 5-4? No
Ergo, open 1NT and don't worry about it.