[eagles123]

Hi guys,

Just wondering what a sensible use is for 3♥ or 3♠ as a response to 1NT?


it's just a bid I have nothing for at the minute and could probably be something quite useful: slam interest in a minor maybe? i.e. 3♣ and 3♦ are both invitational?

Thanks,

Eagles123

[1eyedjack]

It is not a question that makes a lot of sense in isolation of the rest of your response structure.

[eagles123]

1eyedjack, on 2013-May-29, 15:35, said:

It is not a question that makes a lot of sense in isolation of the rest of your response structure.

prefer full transfers, 3♣ and 3♦ i have been told are best for invitational hands but any advice on those would be welcome also

cheers,

eagles

[Cyberyeti]

eagles123, on 2013-May-29, 15:39, said:

prefer full transfers, 3♣ and 3♦ i have been told are best for invitational hands but any advice on those would be welcome also

cheers,

eagles

Are you playing 4 level transfers as well ? We use 3M in very old style, GF one suited but this may not be maximally efficient. Depends on where you have problem hands. Can also be used to show 4441s or hands with 5♦/4♣ and a singleton in the relevant major if you want to go further off the wall.

[antonylee]

Using them to show (31)(54) GFs is a common treatment (if you don't need them for GF one suiters), I think, that gets you to some good moysians while avoiding no-play 3NTs. Whether you want to bid the fragment (wrong-siding the potential moysian) or the shortness (giving them a lead-directing double against 3N if this turns out to be your best spot) if probably by partnership choice.

[shnk]

The traditional meaning of this bid is long suit and slammish, but using Texas transfers pretty much covers all the single suited in a major situations.
The BBO bots use this as 4-4-4-1 I believe. I've also seen them played as 5--5 majors invitational and forcing but that may be redundant depending on how you play a transfer followed by a new suit (we play transfer to hearts then bid spades is 5--5 invitational, transfer to spades then bid hearts is 5--5 forcing). We have defined the direct jumps to 3M as (31)(54) and game forcing but little slam interest and, like the previous poster mentioned, suggests the possibility of playing in a 4--3 fit rather than 3NT.

[Vampyr]

As to your question about 3♣ and 3♦, I prefer to play 3♣ as 5-card Stayman and 3♦ as 5-5 in minors GF. The invitational jumps are less useful when playing 4-suit transfers, since the responses to the minor transfers are normally sufficient to find out whether the suit will (probably) run.

[awm]

Natural slammish is underrated. You can have a much more sensible slam auction starting at the three level (so you can cue or use 3nt by opener as a poor hand) rather than at the four level via texas or a quantitative move.

[Zelandakh]

shnk, on 2013-May-30, 02:36, said:

The traditional meaning of this bid is long suit and slammish, but using Texas transfers pretty much covers all the single suited in a major situations.

The above is simply not true. You should not underestimate the benefits of being able to start a cue auction (possibly with Serious/Frivolous too) at the 3 level. The traditional meaning is one of the more useful possibilities if you do not include it elsewhere. The next most common treatment is for these bids to show shortage, either generally or with a specific shape attached. The specific shapes are typically either (4441)s or (13)(54)s. As Jack points out, it is difficult to make a recommendation without knowing the overall structure.

[mycroft]

I tell people (pickups, at least) that I will play anything at the 3 level, because it never comes up.

I like the Keri idea of 1-under splinters (again, it's better opposite a weak NT than strong, but yeah) combined with a 2♠ "balanced invitation" that can be used as a single-suit-slam-try by treating it as lebensohl. It means you have to figure out your transfers to the minors, and you will lose your superaccepts (Keri uses 2♣, then 3m, for those hands).

But one notes that those 3-bids never come up either :-)

In real life, with a strong NT and no wish to change anything else about the structure, I would suggest fragment bids (as antonylee describes, with all the "pick your poison" choices he describes, too). The ability to avoid 3NT off the first 5 tricks in a major is worth all the poison, never mind finding the making Moysians and 5m hands, and if it's a "useless" bid otherwise...

[Codo]

What comes up and helps are the 4333 hands (3♥) and 3433 hands (3♠). Whether it is better as natural slamish or 31(54)- I have no idea, but it comes up frequently enough and is easy to use.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

eagles123, on 2013-May-29, 15:29, said:

Hi guys,

Just wondering what a sensible use is for 3♥ or 3♠ as a response to 1NT?

Some play the following. I'm not sure whether it is still in fashion or not, but it is simple :

1NT - 3H = 5/5 majors, invite

1NT - 3S = 5/5 majors, GF

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Also, here is a thread from Feb, 2012 concerning 3-level jumps over 1NT :

http://www.bridgebas...to-1nt-opening/

[steve2005]

3♥/3♠ as slamish hand in major is underrated and simple.
What do you do if your 5332 and interested in slam if partner has a fit?
If you transfer and bid a new suit partner will take you for a more distributional hand.

[mikl_plkcc]

I would use them to show 5-5 in the minors and shortness in the bid major, with slam interest.

[Zelandakh]

steve2005, on 2013-June-01, 16:38, said:

What do you do if your 5332 and interested in slam if partner has a fit?

If you are only interested in slam with a fit then transferring and 3NT works. If the major is hearts and you include your balanced invite in a 2♠ rebid then this route also works for the given hand. So the only problem case is 5♠(332) in a hand that is too good to play 3NT opposite 2 spades. That hand has to transfer and bid 4NT without a useful gadget.

[plum_tree]

eagles123, on 2013-May-29, 15:29, said:

Hi guys,

Just wondering what a sensible use is for 3♥ or 3♠ as a response to 1NT?


it's just a bid I have nothing for at the minute and could probably be something quite useful: slam interest in a minor maybe? i.e. 3♣ and 3♦ are both invitational?

Thanks,

Eagles123

I was taught the 2006 SAYC Booklet. This uses 3♥ and 3♠ over 1NT to show a six card suit and slam interest. However the booklet does not explain to me why I can't first do a Jacoby transfer into the appropriate major and then bid game. Surely that must also show slam interest? I don't know what their reasoning is, but if you adopt this suggestion then you can still use 3♥ and 3♠ for something else.

[Vampyr]

plum_tree, on 2013-June-03, 22:43, said:

I was taught the 2006 SAYC Booklet. This uses 3♥ and 3♠ over 1NT to show a six card suit and slam interest. However the booklet does not explain to me why I can't first do a Jacoby transfer into the appropriate major and then bid game. Surely that must also show slam interest?

Probably the SAYC Booklet does not include Texas transfers, in which case the auction you mention does not show slam interest.

[Codo]

And even if SAYC knows texas. IF you play it both ways, Jacoby + jump is just a mild slam try, passable and bidding 3 of the major directly is a strong slam try....

[plum_tree]

The SAYC booklet uses a Jacoby transfer followed by a jump to 4M as "placing the contract" with a six card or longer suit. No mention is made of Texas.