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what is this bidding? 3H-4C-p-4NT

Poll: what is this bidding? (26 member(s) have cast votes)

what does 4NT show

  1. asks for keycards in clubs (6 votes [23.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

  2. to play (19 votes [73.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 73.08%

  3. some for of invitational to slam (1 votes [3.85%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.85%

  4. depends on form of scoring and/or vulnerability (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 04:23

(3♥)-4♣-(pass)-4NT
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#2 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 08:17

Natural for me. I can see it being played as a club slam try without a heart control too.

Hope my partners agree with this.
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#3 User is offline   dwar0123 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 10:33

With 4♦ being forcing and 4♥ being very forcing, I would take it as to play.
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#4 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 10:49

View Postdwar0123, on 2012-October-09, 10:33, said:

With 4♦ being forcing and 4♥ being very forcing, I would take it as to play.

I voted "to play", also. Then I started to overthink :rolleyes:

True, 4D is forcing, and 4H is very forcing. However, perhaps we need 4H as a forcing spade bid, since 4S would not be forcing. This is not something we have adopted, but it might be...and it would necessitate 4NT not being to play.
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#5 User is offline   dwar0123 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 10:53

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-October-09, 10:49, said:

I voted "to play", also. Then I started to overthink :rolleyes:

True, 4D is forcing, and 4H is very forcing. However, perhaps we need 4H as a forcing spade bid, since 4S would not be forcing. This is not something we have adopted, but it might be...and it would necessitate 4NT not being to play.

Agreements trump everything, without I think taking this to play is best.

Still, I think there will be a lot of hands where notrump is the right contract and giving up any way of getting there may not be best long term.
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#6 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 11:26

I wanted to vote "response to Gerber"
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#7 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 15:24

I am simple minded, i am asking keycards.
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#8 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 16:03

I would play 4♣ as non-leaping Michaels, therefore 4NT is keycard for spades (4♦ would be keycard for clubs) :-)
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#9 User is offline   lalldonn 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 16:26

Clearly natural to me.
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#10 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 18:08

Natural
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#11 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 18:13

A useful rule is that if a bid can be usefully played as natural then, in the absence of express agreement otherwise, it is natural.

That rule simplifies a lot of sequences, although in my partnerships I flip it for one specific call: 2N. Then I play that 2N in competitive auctions has an artificial meaning unless we have specifically agreed natural.

Here, we clearly need to be able to suggest notrump from our side. It is easy to see how this trumps the need to ask for Aces just on frequency grounds. It is also easy to see why 4N may well be a better contract, on many 4♣ overcalls, than 5♣.

Since it thus appears that 4N as natural is useful, the discussion about what it means without prior agreement is at an end.

What it should be is an entirely different topic.

I can see: 4♦ as natural, forcing

4♥ transfer to spades, either to play or forcing, intending to bid again

4♠ as a good raise in clubs, slam try

4N as natural

5♣ as no slam interest.

I don't have this agreement with anyone, of course.
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#12 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 18:42

View Postmikeh, on 2012-October-09, 18:13, said:

Since it thus appears that 4N as natural is useful, the discussion about what it means without prior agreement is at an end.

What it should be is an entirely different topic.

I can see: 4♦ as natural, forcing

4♥ transfer to spades, either to play or forcing, intending to bid again

4♠ as a good raise in clubs, slam try

4N as natural

5♣ as no slam interest.

I don't have this agreement with anyone, of course.

Thanks. That completes the picture while leaving 4NT as to play.

It seems that with the scheme, partner has no choice over the 4H xfer but to accept it, though; and I would rather she knew it was slammish and could express an opinion at that point. Can't happen, since your 4S "good raise in clubs" is needed, too.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2012-October-09, 18:51

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