[Bbradley62]

 Bbradley62, on 2012-October-04, 11:57, said:

The current sortable table of tournaments is certainly more convenient than the upcoming "separate two-line box for each tourney".

I do like the idea of removing the "More" button/column and simply clicking on the tournament name to get the "More" information. You could incorporate that feature into the current display, which would de-clutter it some, and leave the rest of the tournament display as it is.

[barmar]

 c3cummins, on 2012-October-08, 10:42, said:

when I log out and back in it reverts to the old version

You have to keep using the beta URL to use the new version.

[Maurice]

Another thing I wouldn't mind seeing is the maximum number of players allowed in the tourney displayed on the main listing. Since you've gone to the two line listing, there's lots of room to put it on there, so we don't have to click to see.

[SimonFa]

I much prefer switching seats in Robot tourneys, it feels more natural especially when looking at the bidding.

[ceres948]

The blue and white stripes are hard on my aging eyes. The old format was easier to read. The old sortable columns are much more useful. This looks like a solution in search of a non-existent problem.

Overall, a big NO from me.

[nathan2008]

I just tested the beta version... I have one suggestion. Please put the entry fee of the game in their names. I am used to seeing $5 robot reward, $1 robot reward best hands, $0.25 robot duplicate etc. In the beta version, i don't see these in their names:( . What is more, if i look for the games which are running, i must click on "more details" to know this game is $1 or $5 .... I find it inconvenient. Others seem so good.

[barmar]

We took the prices out of the names because it's in the Register button, and it would be redundant to have it in both places. We tried to reduce the length of the names, for the sake of players whose screens aren't so wide.

You can enter $1 or $5 in the Search box, and it will find them in the running/completed games even though it doesn't appear on the screen.

[FM75]

 barmar, on 2012-October-11, 18:40, said:

We took the prices out of the names because it's in the Register button, and it would be redundant to have it in both places. We tried to reduce the length of the names, for the sake of players whose screens aren't so wide.

You can enter $1 or $5 in the Search box, and it will find them in the running/completed games even though it doesn't appear on the screen.

When you took out the price colum (which is too wide because of how it is filled) you lost the ability to sort the column.

[barmar]

 FM75, on 2012-October-13, 17:17, said:

When you took out the price colum (which is too wide because of how it is filled) you lost the ability to sort the column.

Why do you need to sort the column?

Whenever I used the sorting feature, it was so I could find tournaments of a particular type. Now we have the search feature that does this better.

[FM75]

 barmar, on 2012-October-14, 16:06, said:

Why do you need to sort the column?

Whenever I used the sorting feature, it was so I could find tournaments of a particular type. Now we have the search feature that does this better.

Sorting the column will put the cheapest tournaments at the top. Sorting again will put the most expensive at the top. So if you want to find a 0.25 or 5.0 tourney it is easy. All will be grouped together. For the same reason, take the tournament number out of the name and make it a column of its own. So when a TD is looking for subs for tourney nnnn or tourney nnnn is starting soon, you can find it quickly if you are interested.

Today, sometimes you can't even see the tournament number or maybe only a digit or two of it.

[Rain]

The beta client has been updated to reflect some changes made after feedback. Use the same URL linked above, but maybe clear cache to see the new client.

[Bbradley62]

Significantly improved tournament list, but...

I can move any of the vertical lines separating fields to adjust the field widths, except that I cannot move the line separating "Entries" and "Register", so I cannot make the Entries column any smaller; the start of the Register column seems to be at a fixed place. Also because of this, when I make any other column smaller, the Entries column get bigger, which is not at all helpful since that coumn does not need more than 3 characters. The Register column also extends beyond the right edge of my main display box (just like the "Refresh" button does). To help yo analyze, since these things are all variable: my computer screen is 12" wide; the left-most 1.5" is the rotating ads; the right-most 3.25" is "Who's Online" and the center main information part is the rest.

[fred]

 Bbradley62, on 2012-October-18, 16:36, said:

Significantly improved tournament list, but...

I can move any of the vertical lines separating fields to adjust the field widths, except that I cannot move the line separating "Entries" and "Register", so I cannot make the Entries column any smaller; the start of the Register column seems to be at a fixed place. Also because of this, when I make any other column smaller, the Entries column get bigger, which is not at all helpful since that coumn does not need more than 3 characters. The Register column also extends beyond the right edge of my main display box (just like the "Refresh" button does). To help yo analyze, since these things are all variable: my computer screen is 12" wide; the left-most 1.5" is the rotating ads; the right-most 3.25" is "Who's Online" and the center main information part is the rest.

Can you e-mail me a screenshot please? fred@bridgebase.com

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[barmar]

 FM75, on 2012-October-18, 14:35, said:

Sorting the column will put the cheapest tournaments at the top. Sorting again will put the most expensive at the top. So if you want to find a 0.25 or 5.0 tourney it is easy. All will be grouped together.

Doesn't typing the price into the Search box serve that purpose even better?

Quote

For the same reason, take the tournament number out of the name and make it a column of its own. So when a TD is looking for subs for tourney nnnn or tourney nnnn is starting soon, you can find it quickly if you are interested.

Again, doesn't the Search box make that easy?

It seems to me that the search field solves many problems, but you're fixated on how to solve them using the grid.

[FM75]

 barmar, on 2012-October-19, 08:40, said:

Doesn't typing the price into the Search box serve that purpose even better?

Again, doesn't the Search box make that easy?

It seems to me that the search field solves many problems, but you're fixated on how to solve them using the grid.

LOL I guess you did not try the Search box for that item. It fails rather badly.


In the current version (I just tried the new improved beta) the register and price are serving double duty in one place. That is probably just a bad idea.

<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Sent screen shots to Fred.

BTW. Searching text does work pretty nicely for some things - such as find a tournament #.
Going back to the grid was also right (IMO).
Reducing its width also worked well.

Suggested the idea of filters a'la Data, Filter in Excel. That way the selection is specific to the data type (column) that you care about. Example - Individual/Pair. Tourney price (only about 5 values) you might pick only one, or maybe 2 or 3.


Expand/Collapse Hosts (that column and at least one other does not sort properly now)

Some times it is best to take a well known and widely used user interface and adapt it rather than try something that is just surprising.

[Bbradley62]

 FM75, on 2012-October-19, 14:49, said:

In the current version (I just tried the new improved beta) the register and price are serving double duty in one place. That is probably just a bad idea.

I don't see why. As long as it's fixed so that it sorts properly, this seems to conserve space and provide useful info.

[barmar]

 FM75, on 2012-October-19, 14:49, said:

LOL I guess you did not try the Search box for that item. It fails rather badly.

I assume "that item" refers to price. I tried it before posting, and thought it worked fine.

Quote

Some times it is best to take a well known and widely used user interface and adapt it rather than try something that is just surprising.

Our thinking was that non-technical people would find a simple list more intuitive than a spreadsheet/grid.

E.g. I've told my mother a zillion times that she can click on the column headings in her email program to sort, but she doesn't get it.

[FM75]

 barmar, on 2012-October-21, 23:46, said:

I assume "that item" refers to price. I tried it before posting, and thought it worked fine.

Our thinking was that non-technical people would find a simple list more intuitive than a spreadsheet/grid.

E.g. I've told my mother a zillion times that she can click on the column headings in her email program to sort, but she doesn't get it.

Searching for 0.25 or $0.5, just plain eliminated some of the things I was looking for. There are only 5 prices, to the best of my knowledge. Text search is a weak method, especially since it is not limited to the price column.

When you test, you must try to make things fail. If you don't test that way, you will end up fighting embarrassing fires, because you only tried the things that obviously would work. Anyway, I don't want to harp on it. I sent Fred screen shots of some of the search problems. The domain being searched here is very limited. Using text search can sometimes work well and sometimes just badly. The idea is to figure out, in this limited domain, what the natural and likely questions will be. Those should be answered via carefully constructed, purposeful queries.


One of the problems with getting people to click on the top of the column headings, is that it is totally unintuitive. There is nothing about the column head that suggests clicking on it. So unless you have used it in windows/mac directory listings, or excel or have seen it before, nothing is likely to get you to click on it. (Of course, you could write "click column headings to sort" somewhere on the screen . The people that already guessed it would laugh. But the ones who didn't. It might kind of knock their socks off.

Does the "Help" mention that you can do it. Not that most people feel the need to look at help.

If you ever escape from Flash, maybe it gets easier.

[cheminfo]

The Bridge movies are an excellent idea, as they allow you to see how good players think! However it is not possible to launch them from an Ipad !! Adobe Flash Player is needed!

Martin

[barmar]

 FM75, on 2012-October-24, 18:24, said:

Searching for 0.25 or $0.5, just plain eliminated some of the things I was looking for. There are only 5 prices, to the best of my knowledge. Text search is a weak method, especially since it is not limited to the price column.

I tried 0.25, it seemed to work perfectly. $0.5 won't work because we don't have any tourneys at that price. Did you mean $5.00? $5 works, but it doesn't work with ".00" because we don't bother to display the cents. So your point is that text search is weak because you have to know the exact way we chose to write the price. But why would you type ".00" when "$5" has already narrowed down the display?

Quote

When you test, you must try to make things fail. If you don't test that way, you will end up fighting embarrassing fires, because you only tried the things that obviously would work. Anyway, I don't want to harp on it. I sent Fred screen shots of some of the search problems. The domain being searched here is very limited. Using text search can sometimes work well and sometimes just badly. The idea is to figure out, in this limited domain, what the natural and likely questions will be. Those should be answered via carefully constructed, purposeful queries.

The nice thing about text search is that it's very flexible -- we don't have to predict all the things you might want to search for and put them into menus, sortable fields, or whatnot. However, I agree with you that these are not mutually exclusive. When we were redesigning this, I suggested a combobox, but others thought it wouldn't work well because there are so many common search items. Other things we've considered are remembering recent searches, or a Favorites list.

Quote

One of the problems with getting people to click on the top of the column headings, is that it is totally unintuitive. There is nothing about the column head that suggests clicking on it. So unless you have used it in windows/mac directory listings, or excel or have seen it before, nothing is likely to get you to click on it. (Of course, you could write "click column headings to sort" somewhere on the screen . The people that already guessed it would laugh. But the ones who didn't. It might kind of knock their socks off.

Does the "Help" mention that you can do it. Not that most people feel the need to look at help.

No. However, we're going to have to update that help page to match these changes (it refers to the "More" and "Join" buttons, which are gone), so this would be a good opportunity to add it.

Quote

If you ever escape from Flash, maybe it gets easier.

I don't think so. The common types of controls in HTML5 are essentially the same.