[manudude03]

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First question is what do you open with this collection?

Suppose you open 2NT, it goes 2NT-P-P-3S, what do you do now?

Edit: MPs scoring if it matters.

[Cyberyeti]

I open 1♦, I reopen with a double.

[chasetb]

4441 hands are awful, and near impossible to bid. I would open 1♦ because I don't have the Q, K, or A singleton of Spades, then make a takeout double. In the past I have opened two hands very similar to this 1♦. The first time 3NT was reached, after partner bid 1♠ on ♠KJxxx and ♦Jxx; the second time 6♦ was reached after my partner raised me to 2 (he was conservative and you could count on him for full values).

[CSGibson]

Open 1♦ (or 1♣, though I think much less of the fake reverse than I do the planned JS or splinter auctions) like a human being who has played this game before.

Now, having opened 2N, I'm going to pass this, because the only other option is making a take-out X, and I'm not going to embarrass myself by putting this down as dummy (another comment on how bad I think 2N is). Maybe partner will be concentrating so hard on his yarb that he won't notice that I don't follow to the 2nd spade in defence.

[akhare]

Open with a minor of choice.

However, having made this choice, X seems OK at MPs (voted for P before seeing the edit on the scoring)...

[Hanoi5]

I hope the double is for take-out, though I'm sure that's normal.

Opening 1♦ will not create so much trouble with so many spades missing...

[psyck]

These are the type of hands Multi was designed for; if you play it as Weak 2 in a Major or any 4441 17-24 HCP hands.

[psyck]

Lacking Multi, I would open 1♣ (I open ♣ with 33 or 44). If 2N opening instead, I would double the 3♠, not particularly caring if pd took it as T/O or penalty.

[chasetb]

 psyck, on 2012-July-02, 11:15, said:

These are the type of hands Multi was designed for; if you play it as Weak 2 in a Major or any 4441 17-24 HCP hands.

Why would you want to start 17-20(21) HCP 4441 hands at the 2-level immediately, with a possible (more than you think) misfit? Just open it at the 1-level; if partner has anything you have more room to work.

Also, throwing those hands into a Multi - Weak 2 of a Major makes it much less effective.

[Cyberyeti]

 chasetb, on 2012-July-02, 11:35, said:

Why would you want to start 17-20(21) HCP 4441 hands at the 2-level immediately, with a possible (more than you think) misfit? Just open it at the 1-level; if partner has anything you have more room to work.

Also, throwing those hands into a Multi - Weak 2 of a Major makes it much less effective.

If you're playing a multi (weak 2/strong bal) anyway, adding the 3 suiter costs little.

I used to play the 3 suiter in the multi back when I played one, and it does help removing these hands from your 1 openers, we played 18+ I think.

[Mbodell]

 Hanoi5, on 2012-July-02, 09:12, said:

I hope the double is for take-out, though I'm sure that's normal.

I agree that X is take-out. But here you are strong enough that it shouldn't be the end of the world if partner leaves it in, even if partner thought it was penalty.

[WellSpyder]

 psyck, on 2012-July-02, 11:21, said:

Lacking Multi, I would open 1♣ (I open ♣ with 33 or 44).

I can understand opening 1♣ with 22 occasionally if nothing else fits, I guess, but it seems pretty conservative with 33 unless you are playing precision. And I can't even remember the last time I held 44 points....

[manudude03]

Those opening 1m might have been in an interesting predicament. (apologies if pips move- no hand records)

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After a 2NT opener, I decided partner would probably think double is penalty and so passed. Declarer misplayed it and finished -1 for 10/14 MPs for us.

[Cyberyeti]

No predicament at all on those breaks, we start 1♦-P-3♦(0-4 5+ diamonds) and after trying for a slam will play 5♦ which seems to be a lucky make.

[manudude03]

I'd like to play against your opponents

[Cyberyeti]

 manudude03, on 2012-July-05, 10:38, said:

I'd like to play against your opponents

Well if they're up to leading a heart, and underleading the ♠AK to beat this with a second ruff then good on them, I'll have Q♠ stiff and be missing J♣ next time they try that.

[CSGibson]

 Cyberyeti, on 2012-July-05, 12:18, said:

Well if they're up to leading a heart, and underleading the ♠AK to beat this with a second ruff then good on them, I'll have Q♠ stiff and be missing J♣ next time they try that.

Perhaps he was talking about passing the 7 card heart suit 2nd seat to give you an uncontested auction, instead of the potential play of 5♦

[Cyberyeti]

 CSGibson, on 2012-July-05, 12:39, said:

Perhaps he was talking about passing the 7 card heart suit 2nd seat to give you an uncontested auction, instead of the potential play of 5♦

It shouldn't be a big problem, some people won't bid vul with the defensive looking ♠QJ, and they'll prob only bid 2♥. 1♦-(2♥)-P- is an interesting problem for N, but after either 2♠ where you have an easy X or P where you can bid 2N I don't foresee too many problems. Worst that's going to happen is you declare 3N and S has to find a spade after 1♦-(3♥)-P-P-3N.

[JLOGIC]

Grunch but NO I DO NOT AGREE I DO NOT HAVE A BALANCED HAND AND I HAVE A VERY SUIT ORIENTED HAND

[JLOGIC]

Of course double is not takeout lol. We showed 20-22 BALANCED and partner passed.