[thebiker]

In my regular partnerships, we use modified Rubensohl as a partial counter to two level overcalls over our weak no trump openers.

Say the bidding goes:

1NT (2C) 2NT is used as Stayman
3C Transfer to D
3D Transfer to H
3H Transfer to S
3S Raise to game no C stop (no 4 card major)
3NT Raise to game with C stop (no four card major)

The 2NT response promises a 4 card major.

2NT can ask if opener has a C stop and if he has a 4 card major

In the majority of cases, a satisfactory landing place is found, but whenever both responder and opener have no club stopper and a 4-4 major fit does not exist, one either has to play in a poor 3NT (with no club stops) or try to stop in an appropriate 3-4 fit if one can be found.

It gets worse if the opponents overcall in higher suits than clubs

My question is what do other pairs do who play Rubensohl?
Do they philosophically accept an occassional disaster, or do they have elaborate methods for finding 3-4 4-3 fits to overcome the problems?

Do they perhaps give up on looking for 4-4 major fits and punt 3NT more than others?

As a subsidary question, would it worth using takeout doubles of two level overcalls, as another means of trying to find sensible contracts, and reduce the use of Staymanic bid such as 2NT above to being Stayman but promising a stop in openers suit

thank you in advance for your advice/input

regards

Brian Keable

alias "thebiker"

This post has been edited by thebiker: 2012-April-11, 09:30

[ArtK78]

I don't understand why you need such a complicated structure over a 2♣ overcall.

Just play double as Stayman and everything else ignores the 2♣ overcall - transfers, etc.

If the club overcall is natural, you can use a transfer to clubs as one of the stopper showing/denying bids and 3NT as the opposite. You can use a 3♣ cuebid after Stayman to deny a fit and either show or deny a club stopper, with 3NT being the opposite.

[antonylee]

Rubensohl really needs T/O X, or at least semi-T/O (playable in multiple strains even though not shapely). If you worry about missing 800s don't forget opener can T/O as well (http://sites.google....mp-interference).
As for whether to play that over 2♣ specifically, that's another question.

[gnasher]

I think it would have been better to pick an auction like 1NT (2♠) to illustrate the problem that I think you're describing.

Playing Lebensohl or Rubensolhl, the Stayman bid is usually a cue-bid or a transfer cue-bid. When they've overcalled 2♠, that means it's 3♠ or 3♥.

If you're going to find that you have no major-suit fit and no stopper, it's better to have started with a takeout double than a cue-bid, because you will have exchanged more information at the three-level. If, on the other hand, you're going to play in 3NT or a 4-4 major-suit fit, it's better not to have started with a takeout double, because that just gives away information unnecessarily.

In my experience you don't often find that you have neither a major-suit fit nor a stopper between the two hands, so I wouldn't say that you should play takeout doubles because of this specific problem. However, I would say that you should play takeout doubles anyway, because they allow you to compete with something ordinary hand like xx Axxx xxx Kxxx opposite 15-17, or xx AQxx xxx Kxxx opposite 12-14. I think this decision is independent of whether you play Rubensohl or not.

[aguahombre]

ArtK78, on 2012-April-11, 09:48, said:

I don't understand why you need such a complicated structure over a 2♣ overcall.

Agree with this, though I might not agree with Art's structure, either. There is a concept which I like: don't let an opponent's action which takes up little or no room force you to gobble up your own bidding space. 2C takes up a little room, but not much. Off-topic, a Double of 1NT (whatever it happens to mean) takes up no space and adds a tool (redouble).

Consider not letting their minor annoyances disrupt, but rather assist you.

[jallerton]

thebiker, on 2012-April-11, 09:11, said:

In my regular partnerships, we use modified Rubensohl as a partial counter to two level overcalls over our weak no trump openers.

Say the bidding goes:

1NT (2C) 2NT is used as Stayman
3C Transfer to D
3D Transfer to H
3H Transfer to S
3S Raise to game no C stop (no 4 card major)
3NT Raise to game with C stop (no four card major)

The 2NT response promises a 4 card major.

2NT can ask if opener has a C stop and if he has a 4 card major

In the majority of cases, a satisfactory landing place is found, but whenever both responder and opener have no club stopper and a 4-4 major fit does not exist, one either has to play in a poor 3NT (with no club stops) or try to stop in an appropriate 3-4 fit if one can be found.

It gets worse if the opponents overcall in higher suits than clubs

My question is what do other pairs do who play Rubensohl?
Do they philosophically accept an occassional disaster, or do they have elaborate methods for finding 3-4 4-3 fits to overcome the problems?

Do they perhaps give up on looking for 4-4 major fits and punt 3NT more than others?

As a subsidary question, would it worth using takeout doubles of two level overcalls, as another means of trying to find sensible contracts, and reduce the use of Staymanic bid such as 2NT above to being Stayman but promising a stop in openers suit

thank you in advance for your advice/input

regards

Brian Keable

alias "thebiker"

In the basic Rubensohl structure you mention, there is no need for Responder to choose between looking for a stop and looking for a 4-4 major suit fit. After the transfer to the cue bid, Opener completes the transfer on all hands without a stopper in their suit and bid his lowest 4-card major or 3NT with a stopper. For example, after 1NT-(2♦natural)-3♣:

3♦ = no ♦ stop. Now 4-card majors are bid up the line. Responder does not bid or pass 3NT without a ♦ stop.
3♥ = ♦ stop and 4 hearts
3♠ = ♦ stop and 4 spades, not 4 hearts.
3NT = ♦ stop, no 4-card major

A slightly different structure is required after 1NT-(2♠) as now there is no room to bid hearts naturally below 3NT after the transfer cue bid. This problem is overcome by using 1NT-(2♠)-3♠ to show one of the hand types.

I also prefer to play a double as take-out orientated. This means that the cue bid and the 3♠ response can be reserved for other hand types, such as a 3-suiter with extreme shortness in their suit.

[Stephen Tu]

jallerton, on 2012-April-11, 14:14, said:

A slightly different structure is required after 1NT-(2♠) as now there is no room to bid hearts naturally below 3NT after the transfer cue bid. This problem is overcome by using 1NT-(2♠)-3♠ to show one of the hand types.

I think that usually:
1nt-(2♠)-3nt = spades stopped
1nt-(2♠)-3♠ = < 4 hearts, no spade stopper, please bid 3nt with a stop, otherwise scramble for a suit
1nt-(2♠)-3♥ = stayman (therefore 4cd hearts) with or without a stopper
after 1nt-(2♠)-3♥:
4♥ = 4 hearts
3nt = not 4 hearts, spades stopped
3♠ = not 4 hearts, no spade stopper