[barmar]

 mgoetze, on 2012-April-06, 12:33, said:

So I'll need to land in the top 10% about 83% of the time to break even. That sounds even tougher than robot rebate. Why can't BBO create a format where I can break even by averaging 55% or so? Seems quite greedy to me.

This isn't poker. The point of these games (and bridge in general) isn't winning money, it's playing for fun. The cash prizes are just extra bonuses.

At most f2f bridge clubs, the only awards (besides masterpoints) are free plays for the winners. There aren't even many major bridge tournaments with cash prizes (the main exception is the Cavendish Calcutta).

[mgoetze]

 barmar, on 2012-April-08, 08:41, said:

This isn't poker. The point of these games (and bridge in general) isn't winning money, it's playing for fun. The cash prizes are just extra bonuses.

Uhhuh. How convenient that the point isn't for players to win money, so that BBO can win lots of money instead.

Anyway I think it would make good business sense for BBO to create a tournament (preferably a robodupe) where people can break even by playing, say, a 53% game. I think it would end up filling the game up so that the reduced profits per player still translate to more profits overall. But this isn't it, obviously.

[barmar]

 mgoetze, on 2012-April-08, 09:34, said:

Uhhuh. How convenient that the point isn't for players to win money, so that BBO can win lots of money instead.

I think you're being extremely unfair. How is this any different from the ACBL games that we've been running for years? They don't award anything other than masterpoints. These new tourneys are the same price, but they also have prizes, and you're complaining because we don't give enough prizes?

If you go to a f2f bridge club, you probably pay at least $8 for one 24-board session, and all you get are masterpoints, and at some clubs a free play if you come in 1st. For that same price you can play 8 12-board BBO games. How is that not a good deal, regardless of prizes? Who's really the greedy one?

[pigpenz]

 barmar, on 2012-April-08, 12:25, said:

I think you're being extremely unfair. How is this any different from the ACBL games that we've been running for years? They don't award anything other than masterpoints. These new tourneys are the same price, but they also have prizes, and you're complaining because we don't give enough prizes?

If you go to a f2f bridge club, you probably pay at least $8 for one 24-board session, and all you get are masterpoints, and at some clubs a free play if you come in 1st. For that same price you can play 8 12-board BBO games. How is that not a good deal, regardless of prizes? Who's really the greedy one?

whats more valuable?????
$$$ or masterpoints???
for most of us $$$$, others masterpoints!

[barmar]

 pigpenz, on 2012-April-08, 12:36, said:

whats more valuable?????
$$$ or masterpoints???
for most of us $$$$, others masterpoints!

This makes no sense. Of course $$$ are more valuable. Why does that mean we have to give them away?

BBO gives you plenty of choices. You can play in free MBC games. You can play in ACBL tourneys. You can play in private club tourneys (many of them offer prizes). You can play in robot tourneys (some with cash prizes, some without). And now we have these new tourneys, which also have cash prizes, but you call us names because we don't give out as many prizes as you'd like.

You say we're greedy, but how can you possibly know the financial details? For all you know, we're just breaking even on these tourneys. And no, we're not going to share our finances with you. We're not a public company, we don't have to open up our books and justify ourselves. If you don't like the service, you don't have to play.

Both of you play in the MBC quite a bit, which is totally free (robot rentals are separate). How do you think we afford to keep MBC free? It's being paid for by the pay tourneys.

[pigpenz]

 barmar, on 2012-April-08, 13:53, said:

This makes no sense. Of course $$$ are more valuable. Why does that mean we have to give them away?

BBO gives you plenty of choices. You can play in free MBC games. You can play in ACBL tourneys. You can play in private club tourneys (many of them offer prizes). You can play in robot tourneys (some with cash prizes, some without). And now we have these new tourneys, which also have cash prizes, but you call us names because we don't give out as many prizes as you'd like.

You say we're greedy, but how can you possibly know the financial details? For all you know, we're just breaking even on these tourneys. And no, we're not going to share our finances with you. We're not a public company, we don't have to open up our books and justify ourselves. If you don't like the service, you don't have to play.

Both of you play in the MBC quite a bit, which is totally free (robot rentals are separate). How do you think we afford to keep MBC free? It's being paid for by the pay tourneys.

sorry but I was just making a comment on reading the thread
I never said you were greedy
the comment was just on whats more important $$ or masterpoints.
for some $$$ is and for some masterpoints is

and I didnt call you names, uh that was probably somewhere else in the thread

[barmar]

Although you weren't the one calling us greedy, I thought your response indicated that you agreed with mgoetze. If I misunderstood, I'm sorry.

[mgoetze]

Barry, comparing the economics of playing on BBO to the economics of playing in a live club is disingenuous.

I fully realise that certain parts of BBO subsidise certain other parts of BBO. We could have a long discussion about how fair this is in certain details - but it's probably best not to do it all in public. I will merely summarise my position as follows: BBO is obviously willing to run Robot Rewards with a certain payout ratio, I think they should be willing to run Robot Duplicates with approximately the same payout ratio.

While I'm on the topic I've found the change a few months ago shortening the interval between my last expenditure of BB$ and the comeback of the ads quite annoying.

[barmar]

We think our new games are more comparable to ACBL and private club tourneys, rather than BBO robot tourneys.

[nathan2008]

 mgoetze, on 2012-April-12, 03:10, said:

Barry, comparing the economics of playing on BBO to the economics of playing in a live club is disingenuous.

I fully realise that certain parts of BBO subsidise certain other parts of BBO. We could have a long discussion about how fair this is in certain details - but it's probably best not to do it all in public. I will merely summarise my position as follows: BBO is obviously willing to run Robot Rewards with a certain payout ratio, I think they should be willing to run Robot Duplicates with approximately the same payout ratio.

While I'm on the topic I've found the change a few months ago shortening the interval between my last expenditure of BB$ and the comeback of the ads quite annoying.

We have robot rebate 55% if u like. Anyway robot duplicate only costs 0.25$; not too much .

[barmar]

 nathan2008, on 2012-April-13, 02:09, said:

We have robot rebate 55% if u like. Anyway robot duplicate only costs 0.25$; not too much .

He's not talking about robot duplicate, he's talking about the new pair games, which cost $1.

And I think he knows about Robot Rebate 55%, since that was the percentage he thought should win prizes in the new games.

[mgoetze]

If you average 55% in Robot Rebate, you don't break even. I was saying there should be some game available where you break even by averaging 55%, whether pure robodupe or with humans.