[Vampyr]

barmar, on 2012-April-03, 13:09, said:

When I want to make sure partner notices a signal, I don't play it conspicuously, I just make sure I don't quit it too quickly.

Careful, newbies might take such a comment seriously!

[TimG]

jillybean, on 2012-April-01, 19:20, said:

So they perhaps lose Cyberyeti & me instead, and the players who do play by the rules but would like to play "unusual" systems as well.

Why would applying the laws mean loss business?

I stopped playing club bridge for the most part a number of years ago, When I do venture back into a local club (perhaps for a special game like an NAP qualifying game), I still recognize most of the faces. There really isn't that much turnover in club games. And, as someone has pointed out, the LOLs far outnumber you and Cyberyeti.

[lalldonn]

Anyone who claims they would call the director over this is either fibbing or not very observant, because with many/most worse than advanced players, it happens almost every hand they defend. It also happens with advanced and expert players, although less frequently as the level improves.

[jillybean]

TimG, on 2012-April-03, 13:16, said:

I stopped playing club bridge for the most part a number of years ago, When I do venture back into a local club (perhaps for a special game like an NAP qualifying game), I still recognize most of the faces. There really isn't that much turnover in club games. And, as someone has pointed out, the LOLs far outnumber you and Cyberyeti.

Why did you stop playing club bridge?

[the hog]

lalldonn, on 2012-April-03, 15:18, said:

Anyone who claims they would call the director over this is either fibbing or not very observant, because with many/most worse than advanced players, it happens almost every hand they defend. It also happens with advanced and expert players, although less frequently as the level improves.

It happens, but not the way it was described - a really long pause and an over emphasised placement of the card.

[lalldonn]

It happens alllll the time. I bet the original poster left out the part where the signaller looked directly at his or her partner as the card was played too. They also do it in the bidding. Any time they make a conventional bid that they are worried partner might forget, they do it slowly, place the bid deliberately, and glare at partner until the alert is made.

I'm not saying these are bad people. I'm sure for most it's some combination of being ignorant and not realizing they are doing it. But it's by far the most common ethical transgression perpetrated by players in general. Good players have generally learned to live with it. If you call the director then they will deny doing it, and it's not like the director can rule that a player be forced to ignore his partner's signal. Plus if you know what you are doing and you learn to watch for that stuff then you can generally gain more from it then their partner can.

[rduran1216]

lol. If it was possible to double like a post, it'd be the one above. It does suck when u get screwed by it, otherwise u just roll with it most of the time. Of course if you get a zero you tend to be more pissed.

[TimG]

jillybean, on 2012-April-03, 15:22, said:

Why did you stop playing club bridge?

Had little or nothing to do with this sort of thing going on.

• Family (kids)
• Long distance partnerships
• Online play more convenient -- can start/stop when I want to and get more boards in per hour (especially if you add in travel time)

If practicing in a regular partnership, the experience gained in club games (which are generally of poor quality around here) is not worth it.

For quite a while, I would fill in when asked as a very small local club, mostly to be social. I, of course, witnessed some things like those you described at the start of this thread, but I mostly roll my eyes and move on. I haven't played even there in quite a while, but again, primarily a function of family.

[Vampyr]

the hog, on 2012-April-03, 18:01, said:

It happens, but not the way it was described - a really long pause and an over emphasised placement of the card.

Also sometimes they will pull out more than one card halfway, so it is clear that they had a choice.

The one mentioned earlier about being slow to quit the trick has an extension: wait until everyone else has quitted the trick, then ask to see it again.

Of course, if the card is not suitable for the signal they would have liked to give, the card is turned over before any of the other players can be certain what it was.

[kenberg]

Dot Lewis used to, perhaps still does but I have lost touch, run a book booth at sectionals and regionals. I was chatting with her when someone came up, identified himself as wanting to learn, and asked if she had a book on defensive signals. I remarked that the critical point to keep in mind is that if partner plays a card quickly it is attitude, if he pays it slowly it is suit preference. Dot properly took me to task for my foray into humor.

[Phil]

Regarding signals, something I have seen even some better players do when they play a significant card is just sort of set it on the table, take their hand off it (pard, make sure you see this one!), and even look at it themselves.

Contrast this with non-important cards that sometimes do not even leave their hand, and if it does the player is too absorbed in watching the other cards to look at their own card.

[WGF_Flame]

If I am pretty sure they cheated, i will call the director, this got nothing to do with the result of this board, its just something that experience player has to do.

[kenberg]

Phil, on 2012-April-03, 21:25, said:

Regarding signals, something I have seen even some better players do when they play a significant card is just sort of set it on the table, take their hand off it (pard, make sure you see this one!), and even look at it themselves.

Contrast this with non-important cards that sometimes do not even leave their hand, and if it does the player is too absorbed in watching the other cards to look at their own card.

This sort of thing is so easy to do without meaning to do it. Those of us who appreciate a good game need to make our best efforts at avoiding such behavior. And relevant to the OP, I think this really has nothing, or at least little, to do with the level of play. Not everyone can learn top flight play, I speak from my own experience on that, but we can all learn and follow our responsibilities to the game.

[blackshoe]

Speaking of quitting tricks too quickly, yesterday, on declarer's lead from dummy, playing fourth, I put my card down, left it there for a second or two, then quitted it. She asked to see it again, saying "I didn't see it". Two tricks later, she flashed a card from her hand briefly and quitted it immediately. I asked to see it. She said "you should pay attention".

[mycroft]

"you're right, I should. Please let me see your card."

There are a couple of players that I really wish I could set up screens for - just for their table. I bet their score would go down 5% overnight. I recognize all of these tricks - and the "stare at RHO when it's their turn to call" one too (so, with screens I'd make sure I was on the other side of the screen from that person). I've actually called the TD on that one.

The weaker players will make their conventional bid, and then tap it if partner doesn't Alert. The stare is a more advanced version.

[RMB1]

gnasher, on 2012-April-03, 02:29, said:

..., and you're just some bloke from out of town who I'll never see again whereas the rest of them have been coming here every week for years."

I was assuming I knew the TD and he knew me, e.g. a county congress; not some club where I was an unknown visitor.

I would not try to get a ruling in my favour on such a hand: it is too difficult to establish the mannerisms envolved, and I find that TDs choose to believe my opponents.

[billw55]

This one is easy for me. In a club game, chuckle to myself and move along. In a tournament, call director and inform. Also, the director call option assumes a greater degree of certainty that an infraction has occurred, than seems to exist in the case the OP described.

Once at a sectional, I was on opening lead and played low. Dummy played almost as low, and partner followed even lower. Dummy then raised the played card up about a foot off the table, facing it toward declarer, to alert her that this low card was holding the trick. This was early in my tournament experience and I was not composed enough to call the director, or do anything at all about it. Now though, I would be calling director before declarer even pulled a card.

[Vampyr]

billw55, on 2012-April-04, 11:54, said:

Once at a sectional, I was on opening lead and played low. Dummy played almost as low, and partner followed even lower. Dummy then raised the played card up about a foot off the table, facing it toward declarer, to alert her that this low card was holding the trick.

Are you sure that was dummy's intention? It sounds as though he might have been trying to hypnotise declarer. Did he spin the card at all?

[billw55]

Vampyr, on 2012-April-04, 17:58, said:

Are you sure that was dummy's intention? It sounds as though he might have been trying to hypnotise declarer. Did he spin the card at all?

Perhaps. Dummy also made a bug-eyed face while displaying the card, does that help enthrall the subject?

[Vampyr]

billw55, on 2012-April-05, 07:04, said:

Perhaps. Dummy also made a bug-eyed face while displaying the card, does that help enthrall the subject?

Usually yes. Did you notice whether dummy played a theremin at all?