[Fluffy]

I hate the smiley jdeegan puts on all his posts, it drives me crazy to the point that I have stopped reading anything he has to say.

[kenberg]

 barmar, on 2013-August-10, 01:27, said:

There are right times for jargon, and wrong times. Jargon streamlines conversations when it's used between members of the community that it's intended for. But when you're talking to outsiders, you have to remember that they don't speak your language, and you should adjust. Helpdesk techs live at the border between the two communities, and they should know to adjust their language depending on whether they're talking with insiders or outsiders.

However, with that said, the increased prevalence of high technology has caused many jargon terms to spread to ordinary language. There was a time when "mouse", "desktop", and "menu" were techie jargon, now they're commonly understood by practically everyone under 40. "URL" is pretty close behind. On the other hand, computer users don't typically need to deal directly with "virtual memory", so that jargon hasn't become mainstream, and probably never will.

It can get tricky. I, and I think many others, lie somewhere between insider and outsider. I am enough of an insider to have helped many in my age group (definitely not under 40) with computer issues. But I can't talk computerese w/o sounding like an idiot. Yesterday's very satisfactory encounter is a case in point. I had some files that I needed to edit. For reasons I won't bother describing, these had to be live in a rather complex tree structure, not one of my making. Moreover, the tree structure had evolved over time and the previous tech guy was not someone I found it easy to communicate with. Then everything went through a further and substantial restructuring, and now who knows where these files were. I found some but not all of them, and the ones I found I no longer had permission to edit. Clearly I needed help and I am pleased to say that I got it. I could do the Linnix stuff to navigate the tree and edit the files once I knew where they were, but the system was (very) large and finding them on my own was simply out of my league. Now maybe I am mis-using the term tree here. Or other terms. I don't know. It was good to be dealing with someone who was flexible about such matters.

The guy found my files, moved them to a sensible place, told me the path where they now were, and restored my editing permissions. I could take it from there. Well done, but earlier experiences have not always been so satisfactory. The current tech specialists are both competent and communicative. Such folks earn their pay!


This example perhaps is not exactly an issue of jargon, but it does fit into the larger issue of communication and of reasonable expectations.
Boy Scouts used to be expected to help old ladies cross the street. Perhaps this should be updated to helping us navigate the computer world.

[barmar]

Try to imagine talking about bridge without words like "finesse", "squeeze", "endplay", or phrases like "run the queen", "draw trumps", "strip the side suits", etc. Jargon is practically indispensible when talking within a community.

But I kind of remember when I first learned the word "tenace". I felt the need to use it when talking with other bridge players, to demonstrate that I was one of them. I'm sure it marked me as a wannabe, since it turns out that it's not commonly used in conversation, but mostly only in technical writing about bridge. These types of nuances take experience to learn, and that's how you can tell the difference between people who learned the language from books and those who are really community members. And it's the misuse by newbies that I suspect is the most grating. When you hear one of these newbies talking like this, your inclination may be to say, "Go away, kid, you bother me."

[kenberg]

Bar, your take on this is much closer to the original post of Amtrax. I sort of wandered off in a related but definitely different direction. I guess I am not all that bothered by the sort of show-off aspect of jargon, although I think it often hinders both thinking and communication.

Along these lines: Listening to the Spingold commentary on vugraph, there was a point where declarer could make the contract by forcing lho to cover a Jack with the Queen, and then picking up the ten from rho. There was no clear reason for doing so. The commentator was saying 'What's that called? It's, oh yes, a backward finesse".
Exactly. It's the analysis that counts, not the terminology. he was perfectly capable of spotting the needed play, and analyzing that in this instance there was no clear reason to take the anti-percentage play. Recalling the correct term was put in its proper and minor role. Jargon users often reverse these priorities.

For example, I once (probably often, but I recall this particular time) failed to make a surrounding play. My partner gave me a lecture including careful development of terminology. Well, I knew the terminology, my mistake was in not recognizing the position.

[Antrax]

Choo choo!

[Fluffy]

Talking about jargon, I've spend years wondering what the ***** meant Nationals, Spingold, Flight B, Silver Master and several more only american terms. I still don't know many of them.

[mycroft]

That's okay, most of the people who are them or who are playing in them don't either :-)

Spoiler

smiley deliberate

[jjbrr]

 Fluffy, on 2013-August-11, 10:02, said:

Talking about jargon, I've spend years wondering what the ***** meant Nationals, Spingold, Flight B, Silver Master and several more only american terms. I still don't know many of them.

lol euros

[kenberg]

 Fluffy, on 2013-August-11, 10:02, said:

Talking about jargon, I've spend years wondering what the ***** meant Nationals, Spingold, Flight B, Silver Master and several more only american terms. I still don't know many of them.

This is in accordance with the prescription that everyone is a winner. It is a cousin to the online practice of typing gtp after declarer, who has nine tricks on top, goes down in 3NT with imp scoring.

[dwar0123]

People who don't care enough about something to google it, but care enough to complain about it on the internet.

[ggwhiz]

 Fluffy, on 2013-August-11, 10:02, said:

Talking about jargon, I've spend years wondering what the ***** meant Nationals, Spingold, Flight B, Silver Master and several more only american terms. I still don't know many of them.

After playing in South Africa for 3 years I was amused to find I had made the rank of Pretorian (Praetorian?). Upon returning to North America, I found out 7 months later that I could convert these points and add them to my acbl record at the rate of 5 SA pts = 6 1/4 acbl masterpoints plus 25% for points won in national events........ if I did it within 6 months.

That makes me a shmuck.

[Antrax]

 dwar0123, on 2013-August-12, 17:05, said:

People who don't care enough about something to google it

Some people just aren't used yet to the fact all the information is always available. I've seen intelligent people equipped with smartphones argue for 10 minutes over facts, instead of investing the 10 seconds it would've taken to check who's right.

[barmar]

 Antrax, on 2013-August-12, 22:36, said:

Some people just aren't used yet to the fact all the information is always available. I've seen intelligent people equipped with smartphones argue for 10 minutes over facts, instead of investing the 10 seconds it would've taken to check who's right.

Facts would just get in the way of a good argument. Life gets more boring if everyone just geeks out with their smartphones.

[Trinidad]

 Antrax, on 2013-August-12, 22:36, said:

Some people just aren't used yet to the fact all the information is always available. I've seen intelligent people equipped with smartphones argue for 10 minutes over facts, instead of investing the 10 seconds it would've taken to check who's right.

Pet peeve: People who think that the internet is filled with facts.

Rik

[gwnn]

Sure there is vandalism and border disputes but if you want to know the surface area of Montenegro, you can get something very close to a factual answer on Wikipedia. Of course trying to find facts about contentious issues will get you dubious info but so will reading books.

[gwnn]

Fluffy tut tut why don't you google the forums? Sorry but on this count you come across a bit like 32159

http://www.bridgebas...902-vocabulary/

[Antrax]

 Trinidad, on 2013-August-13, 01:11, said:

Pet peeve: People who think that the internet is filled with facts.

It's not filled with facts, it's full of facts. Also full of bullshit and porn, but it doesn't mean you can't do fact-finding on the internet.

[jjbrr]

and cat gifs

[helene_t]

google is very good at predicting individual users' preferences so if the answer to most queries is bullshit and porn then .....

[Winstonm]

 Antrax, on 2013-August-13, 02:57, said:

It's not filled with facts, it's full of facts. Also full of bullshit and porn, but it doesn't mean you can't do fact-finding on the internet.

You can fact find porn? Is that a fact.