[rogerclee]

All Vul MP

xxx AQJ8xx KQx x

1H P 2C 2S
3H 3S P P
?

[JLOGIC]

4D

[FrancesHinden]

What JLOGIC said.
Obv. I'm not happy but
- I can't bid 3NT
- I don't have any club support
- I've shown hearts this good

What else am I supposed to do?

[han]

You could double?

[FrancesHinden]

Oh I thought partner bid 3S.

I'd better have another look at the hand.

OK: now I have questions.
How far was 2C forcing?
What would double from partner have meant?

[cherdano]

FrancesHinden, on 2012-January-01, 08:58, said:

How far was 2C forcing?
What would double from partner have meant?

2C was game-forcing, double would have been penalty.
(I won't comment as I know the whole hand.)

[han]

I suspect that 2C was gameforcing, and that partner's double would have been penalty.

[Phil]

4♦. Partner sounds like something along x x AJxxx AQTxxx?

[Fluffy]

My partners tend to bid 2♦ with 5-6, so diamonds don´t look like a good alternative. More likelly partner is 2146 and opponents are bidding too much, I would double.

Also partner might have very good long clubs and await a 3NT bid, I hope he removes the double then.

[FrancesHinden]

Now I know what the auction means, I double.
I don't believe partner is 5=6 in the minors, he would have bid his diamond suit by now with that.
He has at most at singleton heart, so could well be 2=1=4=6 as Fluffy suggests.

I think they are in an 8-card fit, with a singleton spade I can't really see partner passing (what shape does he have?) and my singleton club looks a very tempting lead.

The way this can go wrong is when he's planning to pull the double and I double slowly and opponents object.... I don't think I'd be able to double quickly with 3 low spades.

[nigel_k]

I would definitely double. We have the high card values for game and no fit. Even opposite Phil's example double looks ok and partner's hand could easily be more suitable.

[MrAce]

If 2♣ was gf then i DBL now.

[aguahombre]

Phil, on 2012-January-01, 12:29, said:

4♦. Partner sounds like something along x x AJxxx AQTxxx?

Not if 2C was game forcing in today's world; and even if partner thinks that hand is game forcing she would have bid the diamond suit last time.

[gszes]

4 different 2c bids

1. xx x A432 AKJxxx
2. Kx x xxxx AKQxxx
3. x 3 Axxx AKxxxxx
4. xx K Axxx AQxxxx

over 3s p will probably
bid the following way

1. x
2. 3n
3. pass
4. 4h

the above 4 choices dont include the myriad hands where
p has heart support and wants to see what we do over 3s
before proceeding. The choice of

4d

accomplishes a lot---it lets p know we dont have "stuff" in spades
(great opposite their probable shortness) it also is discouraging
since we did not repeat hearts or raise clubs. P will also know
that if we have 4 dia the heart suit was so much better (yet not
good enough to bid 4h) that a 2d bid seemed wrong vs 2h. Most
likley we have bid a fragment.

jlogic got this thread off to a good start then we went astray:)))

The x in the direct seat to show no special bid to make is an
important weapon in gf auctions. This is mainly because it allows
x in the po seat to be more penalty oriented.

[aguahombre]

gszes has some of it right, but then goes nuts about 4D. Firstly, Opener did not have the option to bid 2D vs 2H with 4-6, since his righty bid 2S and 3H would have been his only option. Therefore, since 3) if gszes is correct in his analysis is the only hand where responder would have remained silent thus far (X X AXXX AKXXXXX), then 4D will get us to a diamond slam when our last hope for a plus is 3S doubled or 4H.

[mike777]

I will try x

My guess is pard has around:

xx..x..Axxx...AKJTxx

or

xx...x....AJxx..AKJxxx or more.

I dont think pard is 5-6 with 10/11hcp or more.

1=1=5=6

[rhm]

Even if partner has diamonds, why is it my job to introduce them?
Introducing diamonds risks only playing diamonds when partner has insufficient support and we get forced.
If partner with 6-5 introduced clubs first he made in my opinion a commitment to show his second suit later if the bidding is below the game level, particularly when opponents have a good fit and therefor we should have one too. Otherwise he should have started with the higher ranking suit.
More likely partner has good clubs and wanted to see whether I can bid 3NT.
I have a clear agreement that doubles of opponents, who have raised each other at the part-score level, are never pure penalties.
If I can not double with this I will never have a suitable hand for double if the bidding goes that way against sane opponents.
What is tough about this hand escapes me. However, partner may have a tough decision whether to leave the double in. If he bids 3NT I will take it out.

Rainer Herrmann

[jogs]

han, on 2012-January-01, 06:38, said:

You could double?

If we choose to double, this becomes a lead problem. Should we lead a trump or the singleton club?

[cherdano]

jogs, on 2012-January-03, 11:47, said:

If we choose to double, this becomes a lead problem. Should we lead a trump or the singleton club?

I agree, the lead problem is just as tough as the bidding problem.

[mikeh]

I double and lead a trump.

We rate to have every side suit sown up....tho I suppose one can picture all the missing high cards being wrong for us....in which case we weren't making much anyway.

Partner is allowed to pull.....he did make a forcing pass, and we've shown our heart suit. He can't play us for great spades on this sequence, so while xxx may be less than he hopes we hold, it isn't more than we show via double.