[kgr]

(This question was raised after we had this kind of situation at the table)
Suppose you have a balanced hand with 10 HCP.
Something like:

---

Partner opens 1NT: 15-17
RHO DBL's (DONT): A long suit.

You can RDBL: all next DBL's will be penalty.
Or otherwise system is on.

...Please indicate how scoring/vulnerability matters...
Do you prefer to show your hand immediately or Will you REDBL and will you DBL for penalty if RHO bids 2C/2D/2H/2S?
BTW: If you REDBL, should the bidding be forcing on all levels: Opps cannot play a contract undoubled?

[Gerben42]

Hi Klaus

I prefer to play cooperative Redoubles, i.e. Rdbl shows points, then Dbl = T/O only 2nd Dbl is penalty.
But anyway... with this hand you have to ask yourself what the point of redouble is. Opponents are not going to play in partner's 4-card suit(s) and if they bid ♥, you don't want to play 2♥X.
The best hands for penalizing opponents are either hands where your game in unsure (i.e. invitational hands) or where you are between game and slam (because of the extra power). Not this hand. So strangely enough removing the ♦Q would make your hand better for Rdbl!

I would simply pass to find out opponent's suit. If it is ♣, I can bid 3♣ to ask for a stopper. If it is something else, 3NT sounds right.

[gszes]

kgr, on 2011-December-31, 03:38, said:

(This question was raised after we had this kind of situation at the table)
Suppose you have a balanced hand with 10 HCP.
Something like:

---

Partner opens 1NT: 15-17
RHO DBL's (DONT): A long suit.

You can RDBL: all next DBL's will be penalty.
Or otherwise system is on.

...Please indicate how scoring/vulnerability matters...
Do you prefer to show your hand immediately or Will you REDBL and will you DBL for penalty if RHO bids 2C/2D/2H/2S?
BTW: If you REDBL, should the bidding be forcing on all levels: Opps cannot play a contract undoubled?

at IMPS I am willing to take risk 1 imp when 1n x makes exactly 3 (380vs400 of 580vs600)
and pass ALL balanced hands (that have no slam interest) saving any future X for
penalty.

Over the x my xx is a relay to 2c where I "normally" have a WEAK 1 suited hand and will pass or bid it at 2 level
this method is also they way to show all most invitational + distributional hands that cant stand the thought of 1n x
2n shows the minors invite ie xx x KJxxx KJxxx
3c shows hearts and a minor 3d by p asks for minor 3h = clubs 3s = dia
3d shows spades and a minor 3h by p asks for minor 3s = clubs 3n = dia
3h shows both majors
3s strong (single suit undisclosed) major suit hand looking for slam opener cue bids or bids 4h to try and sign off
3n strong minor suit hand ie xx x AKxxx Axxxx
4c strong club/major hand
4d strong dia major hand
4h strong both majors

directly over the x bids at the 2c/2d/2h (see MP below)are WEAK 2 suited or 3
suited hands asking p to bid lowest 3 card suit or pass.

2s invitational club hand ie xx xxx xx (KQxxxx AQxxxx AKxxxx)
2n invitational dia hand ie xx xxx (KQxxxx AQxxxx AKxxxx) xx
3c long weak club suit headed by A or K and out xx xxx x A/Kxxxxx
3d long weak dia suit headed by A or K and our xx xxx A/Kxxxxx x
3h invitational hand with 6 + hearts
3s invitational hand with 6 + spades
3n club suit looking for slam opener bids 4c to deny slam interest or cue bids
4c dia suit looking for slam opener bids 4d to deny slam interest or cue bids
4d texas
4h texas

there is more but thats the basic outline.


AT MP it is understandable that risking a bad result for 1nx making 3 seems like
a poor risk. Directly over the x we use the following bids and we keep the system
in place where xx is a relay to 2c.

2c = stayman
2d = transfer invitational + we can xx and bid 2h to show a weak hand with hearts
2h = transfer invitational + we can xx and bid 2s to show a weak hand with spades
2s = xfer to clubs opener bids 2n to show willingness to play 3n opposite 6 clubs 2 of top 3
2n = xfer to dia opener bids 3c to show willingness to play 3n opposite 6 dia 2 of top 3
3n = to play
4d = texas
4h = texas

[bluecalm]

Quote

Do you prefer to show your hand immediately or Will you REDBL and will you DBL for penalty if RHO bids 2C/2D/2H/2S?
BTW: If you REDBL, should the bidding be forcing on all levels: Opps cannot play a contract undoubled?

Rdbl at every form of bridge. We can score a ton here.
As to dbl's after rdbl there are 3 possible agreements:
a)standard: every dbl is for penalty
b)cooperative: first dbl is t/o subsequent ones are penalty
c)"italian" dbl shows 2-3 cards in a suit (thus pass showing 1 or penalty) (thus all immediate bids promise shortness in principle as well as pass and bid)

I am not sure if b) or c) is better (I tend to thing c is) but both are much better than a). One of those bidding thingies the world didn't catch up to yet

[kgr]

gszes, on 2011-December-31, 19:58, said:

at IMPS I am willing to take risk 1 imp when 1n x makes exactly 3 (380vs400 of 580vs600)
and pass ALL balanced hands (that have no slam interest) saving any future X for
penalty.
....

Note that my question was specifically about a forcing DONT DBL by Opps. It seems like you misread that.

[kgr]

bluecalm, on 2011-December-31, 21:08, said:

Rdbl at every form of bridge. We can score a ton here.
As to dbl's after rdbl there are 3 possible agreements:
a)standard: every dbl is for penalty
b)cooperative: first dbl is t/o subsequent ones are penalty
c)"italian" dbl shows 2-3 cards in a suit (thus pass showing 1 or penalty) (thus all immediate bids promise shortness in principle as well as pass and bid)

I am not sure if b) or c) is better (I tend to thing c is) but both are much better than a). One of those bidding thingies the world didn't catch up to yet

That could well be right (same after 1x-(DBL)-RDBL).
The problem with a) is that it often is difficult to DBL for penalty. F.i. if East bids 2S in my example hand then it is difficult for South to DBL and when North also has a 3cS it will also be difficult for North. ...not sure if this is easier with b or c.

[ahydra]

Depends on the vulnerability. If they are vul and we aren't then I'll REDBL and PEN X everything that comes after that. Otherwise (depending on my mood) I'd probably just bid 3NT before West can find out what East's suit is, or pass then ask for a stop in clubs / bid 3NT otherwise.

ahydra

[Fluffy]

I normally redouble, and I will pass anything but 2♥ for partner to double if he wants, if they are vul I might double other suits too

[Zelandakh]

Gerben42, on 2011-December-31, 05:25, said:

I would simply pass to find out opponent's suit. If it is ♣, I can bid 3♣ to ask for a stopper. If it is something else, 3NT sounds right.

Out of interest Gerben, what is the difference for you between
1NT - (X) - XX - (2C);
P - (P) - 3C

and

1NT - (X) - P - (2C);
P - (P) - 3C
?

I think I would have chosen the first sequence for this hand without seeing your response. It seems more logical to stopper-ask having first shown strength. But I also know you have some great bidding ideas so perhaps you use XX then cue for something else(?)

[wank]

if you aren't going to XX here, why play XX for pens?