[Fluffy]

---

1NT-2♦
2♥-3♥
3NT

partner leads ♦5 (4th best, or second from xxxx)

dummy plays low, what card do you play?

[gnasher]

If declarer had four diamonds, partner might have led a spade rather than a diamond. If declarer had ♦AKx, he'd probably have played the 10 at trick one. Hence I play the queen.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Fluffy, on 2011-November-21, 17:14, said:

---

1NT-2♦
2♥-3♥
3NT

partner leads ♦5 (4th best, or second from xxxx)

dummy plays low, what card do you play?

Could this be posted any any more confusing ?

[JLOGIC]

Was I sleeping when I failed to double this?

[mikeh]

The oft maligned rule of 11 tells us that declarer holds 2 cards higher than the 5, and we can infer that partner has 5 (or more) diamonds

Nothing matters if he holds K6x, A6x..either the 8 or the Q work.

When he holds J9x or J6x, the 8 is silly

When he holds AJx or KJx, he gets 2 tricks no matter what we do, but playing the Q at least assures us, should we later want it, that we get a trick while on a bad day, the 8 prevents us from geting any diamond trick at all...declarer may be able to knock out partner's entry (in spades, perhaps) before we dislodge the ♦A.

When he holds A9x or K9x, the 8 is silly.

Only when he holds AKx is the 8 correct.

I agree with Andy that declarer would usually play the 10 with AKx.....opening leader may have held QJ65x for example.

Even without that inference, I see the case for the 8 as being low percentage.

[bigbenvic]

I'm looking for the problem but I cant see it. If partner has 4 he's led from 9542 and declarer has AKJx and 4 tricks. So pards has to have 5 (or it's irrelevant) and the queen is a must, isn't it?

[JLOGIC]

The problem arises if partner has J965 fourth, then you must play the 8.

[mikeh]

JLOGIC, on 2011-November-21, 20:01, said:

The problem arises if partner has J965 fourth, then you must play the 8.

But if we assume he has only a stiff heart, how likely is he to have led from J9xx? Even if he is 4=1=4=4, one or both of his black suits would (I think) look more attractive

[S2000magic]

mikeh, on 2011-November-21, 20:20, said:

But if we assume he has only a stiff heart, how likely is he to have led from J9xx? Even if he is 4=1=4=4, one or both of his black suits would (I think) look more attractive

This argument is even stronger against a lead from 9 5 4 2.

[bigbenvic]

With J965 when we play the 8, I would assume that declarer wins and plays a ♥ to set the suit up or clubs if he has Kxxxx (why didn't pards lead a spade?) now when we are in and play the Q declarer ducks and we need pard to have 2 entries to get to enjoy the 4th ♦ which appears unlikely (pards would need AQ♠). If pards has AQxx ♠ declarer has Kjxx Qxx AKx Kxx a hand that might not bid 3♥ assuming 2 was passable. I'd want better than a 16HCP 4333 to kick.

[JLOGIC]

mikeh, on 2011-November-21, 20:20, said:

But if we assume he has only a stiff heart, how likely is he to have led from J9xx? Even if he is 4=1=4=4, one or both of his black suits would (I think) look more attractive

I think the queen is right/normal without giving it any deep thought. I was just explaining what "the problem" was to the guy who asked.

Quote

With J965 when we play the 8, I would assume that declarer wins and plays a ♥ to set the suit up or clubs if he has Kxxxx (why didn't pards lead a spade?) now when we are in and play the Q declarer ducks and we need pard to have 2 entries to get to enjoy the 4th ♦ which appears unlikely (pards would need AQ♠). If pards has AQxx ♠ declarer has Kjxx Qxx AKx Kxx a hand that might not bid 3♥ assuming 2 was passable. I'd want better than a 16HCP 4333 to kick.

If partner has J965 and we play the queen we give declarer 3 tricks. If we play the 8 declarer has 2 tricks. I would play the queen anyways for the reasons others have said.

[bigbenvic]

JLOGIC, on 2011-November-21, 21:14, said:

I think the queen is right/normal without giving it any deep thought. I was just explaining what "the problem" was to the guy who asked.



If partner has J965 and we play the queen we give declarer 3 tricks. If we play the 8 declarer has 2 tricks. I would play the queen anyways for the reasons others have said.

Sorry I seem to have been blinded to that outcome, my brain is slipping. I kept playing Declarer for 3 even when pards has 4! feeling dopey now.

[A2003]

Is it lead out of turn? who is the declarer?

[Fluffy]

A2003, on 2011-November-21, 23:15, said:

Is it lead out of turn? who is the declarer?

west is declarer.


the 8 might also be corrrect when partner has K965.

Declarer had AKx, I played the 8, he won the ace, then played ♥Q and let my ♦Q win next trick blocking the suit, so not even when partner has J9xxx is correct to play the 8 .

Contract went 2 down anyway, I should had doubled this.

[JLOGIC]

Fluffy, on 2011-November-22, 02:52, said:

Contract went 2 down anyway, I should had doubled this.

Yes. I'm surprised no one said anything about this, it is really a far bigger error to not double than even making some horrible play would have been. I know I say close bids never really matter much, but not Xing this will cost you an incredible amount in the long run compared to most bids/plays at both forms of scoring.

And of course you're right that the Q costs when partner has K965, sorry. Playing partner for 5 diamonds just seems percentage, and sometimes when he has 4 diamonds the Q will work better (KJ65 you gain tempo/don't block diamonds).

[Fluffy]

how much ammount of time do you give yourself to double uncontested games?. I don´t wanna give away info to declarer by thinking before passing, so I take my decisions quick, perhaps too quick.

[JLOGIC]

Fluffy, on 2011-November-22, 03:06, said:

how much ammount of time do you give yourself to double uncontested games?. I don´t wanna give away info to declarer by thinking before passing, so I take my decisions quick, perhaps too quick.

Sure, it is a common situation in bridge that sometimes you have to decide between trying to make a decision quickly but being more likely to make the wrong one vs thinking something through but possibly giving away info.

Personally, as soon as RHO transferred to hearts, I would be thinking whether I'm going to double an invitational auction game (yes), and whether I'm going to double a transfer and jump to 3N (no) and whether I'm going to double 4H if they get to 4H after jumping to game like 1n 2D 2H 3N 4H. I am always thinking about the most likely ways for the auction to develop in order to give me a problem. Maybe it's some kind of ADD thing

Certainly when they bid 3H, I would be considering whether to double a game at that point.

Maybe the auction went too fast for you to do this, but imo you should just worry more about making the right decisions and less about giving them info, in the long run that is a better plan.

That being said you can also just double without thinking at all any time they have an invitational auction to 3N and you have AJ98x of their suit behind them!

[jallerton]

Fluffy, on 2011-November-22, 02:52, said:

west is declarer.


the 8 might also be corrrect when partner has K965.

Declarer had AKx, I played the 8, he won the ace, then played ♥Q and let my ♦Q win next trick blocking the suit, so not even when partner has J9xxx is correct to play the 8 .

Contract went 2 down anyway, I should had doubled this.

JLOGIC, on 2011-November-22, 02:55, said:

Yes. I'm surprised no one said anything about this, it is really a far bigger error to not double than even making some horrible play would have been. I know I say close bids never really matter much, but not Xing this will cost you an incredible amount in the long run compared to most bids/plays at both forms of scoring.

In fact, someone had already said something about this. You had!

JLOGIC, on 2011-November-21, 19:03, said:

Was I sleeping when I failed to double this?

[jallerton]

mikeh, on 2011-November-21, 20:20, said:

But if we assume he has only a stiff heart, how likely is he to have led from J9xx? Even if he is 4=1=4=4, one or both of his black suits would (I think) look more attractive

Assuming that we play a double of 2♦ as showing diamonds, partner would have to be the one sleeping to have chosen a diamond lead from a 4=1=4=4 hand.