[Free]

Playing imps, I was dealt the following hand:

---

I'd like your opinions about what strategy to take with such a hand in 3rd seat NV. Playing precision, partner would open every 11-count, and some distributional 10-counts as well obviously. You have several options:
- 1♦ is the systemic bid. It shows maximum 11-15HCP with 2+♦ (11-13 balanced included). In 3rd seat this opening can be lighter.
- 1NT showing 14-16HCP balanced. We frequently upgrade 13-counts to 1NT (especially with a 5 card Major).
- 2♣. Normally this shows 11-15HCP with 6+♣, but in 3rd seat a good 5 card ♣ is also allowed, and we may be weaker.
- I don't see any alternatives, but if you have any please let me know.

What would you open, and why?

[Hanoi5]

I'd open 1NT for its pre-emptive effect. 2♣ is the alternative IF the partnership is clear that it can be done on a 5-card club suit in 3rd position. 1♦ sucks I think.

[nige1]

Free wrote:
Playing imps, I was dealt the following hand:
I'd like your opinions about what strategy to take with such a hand in 3rd seat NV. Playing precision, partner would open every 11-count, and some distributional 10-counts as well obviously. You have several options:
- 1♦ is the systemic bid. It shows maximum 11-15HCP with 2+♦ (11-13 balanced included). In 3rd seat this opening can be lighter.
- 1NT showing 14-16HCP balanced. We frequently upgrade 13-counts to 1NT (especially with a 5 card Major).
- 2♣. Normally this shows 11-15HCP with 6+♣, but in 3rd seat a good 5 card ♣ is also allowed, and we may be weaker.

IMO, 1N = 10 (Although, if you open 1N on any old 13 count with a 5 card suit, then you should declare the range as 13+ -16. -- Just my opinion -- The directors whom I've asked disagree with me). 2♣ = 8. 1♦ = 7 (but if the five card suit is diamonds, then 1♦ seems better than 1N.)

---

[hrothgar]

 Free, on 2011-June-07, 07:31, said:

Playing imps, I was dealt the following hand:

---

I'd like your opinions about what strategy to take with such a hand in 3rd seat NV. Playing precision, partner would open every 11-count, and some distributional 10-counts as well obviously. You have several options:
- 1♦ is the systemic bid. It shows maximum 11-15HCP with 2+♦ (11-13 balanced included). In 3rd seat this opening can be lighter.
- 1NT showing 14-16HCP balanced. We frequently upgrade 13-counts to 1NT (especially with a 5 card Major).
- 2♣. Normally this shows 11-15HCP with 6+♣, but in 3rd seat a good 5 card ♣ is also allowed, and we may be weaker.
- I don't see any alternatives, but if you have any please let me know.

What would you open, and why?

I think that 1NT is the best choice of bids

You have a balanced hand
This looks right in terms of strength (AKxxx is a nice holding)
You're protecting your tenaces on the opening lead

[Phil]

Easy 1N, especially in 3rd.

[jmcw]

When you have a systemically correct bid available why would you not use it?

Maybe you don't like the system bid, so you stretch for something better?
If you bid 1NT with this hand because its preemptive then why not do in 1st and 2nd seat?

With this thinking would you open 1♠ on

---

[Free]

 jmcw, on 2011-June-07, 11:23, said:

When you have a systemically correct bid available why would you not use it?

Maybe you don't like the system bid, so you stretch for something better?
If you bid 1NT with this hand because its preemptive then why not do in 1st and 2nd seat?

With this thinking would you open 1♠ on

---

The reason why I don't like the systemic 1♦ is because I'll never be able to show my ♣ suit or fight the part score battle properly, because we expect a competitive auction. The alternatives are more attractive imo. 1NT is a little upgrade, it's more preemptive, but it risks ending too high. 2♣ gets the ♣ suit in the picture and is also preemptive with the risk of missing a better ♥ fit (or even a 5-2 ♠ fit).

Your example hand has only 12 cards, so I don't know what point you're trying to make with it. With 4♠s only we never open 1♠ per agreement, if that's what you were trying to say.

[JLOGIC]

I don't get 1N. Our hand is strong enough/has enough D that I don't usually expect them to have a game. My hand is also weak enough that I don't expect to ever have a game when partner couldn't open first seat white in precision (though he will probably be bidding 1N-3N with 10). I would just open 1D and don't get why that's a problem. If you don't like opening a nebulous diamond when you have clubs then stop playing precision.

[gnasher]

 Free, on 2011-June-07, 07:31, said:

We frequently upgrade 13-counts to 1NT (especially with a 5 card Major).

Why especially with a 5-card major? I can't believe it's better to open 1NT on AKxxx Jxx Kx Qxx than on Qxx Jxx Kx AKxxx.

[dake50]

Agree Hanoi5.
Grab 1NT. Deviate 1 hcp to get over opponents easy M-fit tries.
Attempt to win this partial hand.
Partner knows 1D was available to let his 4xM into 1-level.

[gwnn]

1NT woooo

[jmcw]

 JLOGIC, on 2011-June-07, 12:06, said:

I don't get 1N. Our hand is strong enough/has enough D that I don't usually expect them to have a game. My hand is also weak enough that I don't expect to ever have a game when partner couldn't open first seat white in precision (though he will probably be bidding 1N-3N with 10). I would just open 1D and don't get why that's a problem. If you don't like opening a nebulous diamond when you have clubs then stop playing precision.

Amen, much better said than my earlier post.

[MickyB]

1NT would [should] announce interest in game opposite a passed hand. We don't have that. It also wouldn't get our clubs into the picture.

2C will cause partner to frequently overcompete. If you were suggesting bending the requirement for a six-card suit on x xxx Axxx KQJTx, that would seem perfectly reasonable, but that hand is nothing like this one.

1D may not show our clubs, but now partner can act knowing that we have something, and we can hope to find our fit later.

There is a good case for switching to natural, strong NT methods just in third seat, IMO. You could even play four-card majors, now your 1C opening would almost show five cards!

[JLOGIC]

MickyB, I think you are missing out on the preemptive effect of white 3rd seat 1Ns. Like I would always love to be able to open 1N on xx Jx KQxx AQJxx or something in third seat w/r in order to F them out of a game, but this is the wrong hand for that imo, we have too much defense combined with not enough offense.

[the hog]

" 1♦ is the systemic bid. It shows maximum 11-15HCP with 2+♦ (11-13 balanced included). In 3rd seat this opening can be lighter."

So why deviate from the system bid? If you don't like the system bid, play another system.

[Lurpoa]

 Free, on 2011-June-07, 07:31, said:

Playing imps, I was dealt the following hand:

---

I'd like your opinions about what strategy to take with such a hand in 3rd seat NV. Playing precision, partner would open every 11-count, and some distributional 10-counts as well obviously. You have several options:
- 1♦ is the systemic bid. It shows maximum 11-15HCP with 2+♦ (11-13 balanced included). In 3rd seat this opening can be lighter.
- 1NT showing 14-16HCP balanced. We frequently upgrade 13-counts to 1NT (especially with a 5 card Major).
- 2♣. Normally this shows 11-15HCP with 6+♣, but in 3rd seat a good 5 card ♣ is also allowed, and we may be weaker.
- I don't see any alternatives, but if you have any please let me know.

What would you open, and why?

A systemic bid is available. So I would use it: that is better the partnership in the long term.

That said 1NT is not completely wrong. 1♦=10, 1NT=7.

[Mbodell]

MBodell's law: "If you have a choice of reasonable opening bids and one of them is 1NT, then bid it."

I like 1nt, especially all white. I'd rather play 12-15 or 11-15 or even 10-14 then (13+)14-16 if partner is going to open all 11's but only shapely 10's as I'd rather we have a wide preemptive range and never have a 3nt game on power where you could have 16 opposite a flat 10.

[dake50]

If not 1NT, but 1D, what do you defenders of that say to
1) Letting 4xM overcalls in and they find 2M,3M?
2) Choosing an alternative in a 3 card suit.
Try to get your real 5-suit into the auction
AND balanced minimum message to partner.
3) Systemically justify the losing 1D(precision or nebulous)
when a very good alternative in 3rd seat presents.

[Free]

I choose to open 2♣ for the preemptive effect, the decent suit, and the expected competitiveness. In 1st and 2nd seat you don't expect competition like in 3rd seat with such hand. In any other seat I'd open 1♦ without blinking, but in 3rd we're more flexible and allow a 2♣ opening on a good 5 card ♣ (so I thought I had a choice ). And as always we also allow upgrades. I didn't like the downsides of 1NT, so the choice was between 1♦ and 2♣ imo. I didn't expect so much support for 1NT!

My action turned out bad. I was doubled, RHO passed with a 3=3=3=4 with 6HCP, and I even had to underruff for -2:
myhands

There are many opposing reactions, so it's hard to conclude anything except that my choice doesn't get much support. That made me wonder: on what type of hand is it ok to open 2♣ on a 5 card in 3rd seat (instead of 1♦ or 2♦ 3-suited)?

[olien]

I've only opened 2♣ on a 5-card suit a couple of times in 3rd seat. Both times it was a (31)45 type where I preferred a ♣ lead to a ♦ lead and I wanted to preempt them out of an M fit. Of course you might also do it on (41)35 types or (42)25 or even 2245 types where you just want to get in a lead director and do some preempting. I'm not really a fan of the idea of doing it with a 4-card M because too frequently you'll lose the M fit and play in a 5-2 or 5-1 ♣ fit. However, I would never open 2♣ on a 5332 type hand except maybe under the most favorable of conditions (white v red, super light, know opps have game). It totally distorts your offensive capabilities and can destroy your later constructive/competitive bidding if you can do it on this hand type and partner is expecting you to usually have 6+♣ or at least some distribution to compensate. Anyways, these are just my experiences.