[mgoetze]

---

1NT showed 5+ diamonds, a 4-card major, and 8-15 points.

What do you bid with no special agreements about this situation?

If you have agreements, what are they?

[aguahombre]

Without agreements, whatever I do here will be wrong, and out of tempo.

As a passed hand, with agreements, whatever I do here will be wrong, and out of tempo.

The closest I can come to is 2D, agreed as an invite club raise without a diamond stopper --2C would be inverted with a diamond stopper. The unknown major would just have to take care of itself.

But I don't like having only 4 clubs.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2011-June-04, 15:15

[helene_t]

double. I think it is very close between double and 2♦, and may depend on our minor suit opening style for balanced hands. But if I am going to force to 3♣ anyway I might as well double first and then bid 3♣.

If LHO bids 3♦ I might regret not having shown my club support. It is also tricky if p doubles 2♦. I think I will pass then.

[gwnn]

I double in tempo. I don't think it's obvious and I've never played against Raptor (I've played it for about a year), but I like bidding in tempo, making it easy for partner

[mgoetze]

What's up with the tempo issues, I played this behind screens, dudes.

[jallerton]

What system is being employed by the opening side? What strength is a 1NT opener in this position? 4-card or 5-card majors?

[mgoetze]

 jallerton, on 2011-June-05, 01:39, said:

What system is being employed by the opening side? What strength is a 1NT opener in this position? 4-card or 5-card majors?

5-card majors, 1NT would have been 14-16, with 3-3 in minors always open 1♣, with 4-4 always 1♦.

[Lurpoa]

 mgoetze, on 2011-June-04, 14:25, said:

---

1NT showed 5+ diamonds, a 4-card major, and 8-15 points.

What do you bid with no special agreements about this situation?

If you have agreements, what are they?

Yes,
Double.... at least partner will know we have the majority of points.

If I pass, he will not understand any further action.

[Lurpoa]

 mgoetze, on 2011-June-04, 14:25, said:

---

1NT showed 5+ diamonds, a 4-card major, and 8-15 points.

What do you bid with no special agreements about this situation?

If you have agreements, what are they?

Yes,
Double.... at least partner will know we have the majority of points.

If I pass, he will not understand any further action.

[Lurpoa]

 mgoetze, on 2011-June-04, 14:25, said:

---

1NT showed 5+ diamonds, a 4-card major, and 8-15 points.

What do you bid with no special agreements about this situation?

If you have agreements, what are they?

Yes,
Double.... at least partner will know we have the majority of points.

If I pass, he will not understand any further action.

[mgoetze]

Hm, so noone has any useful defense against this bid? Can't be as bad as they always say then.

Anyway, to make this more interesting...

---

...your bid now?

[gwnn]

6♣.

nei, I guess 4♥ must be a cue for clubs and opps might have only 8 diamonds.. so 4♥

[P_Marlowe]

X - penalty.

2D would be inv.+ raise for clubs.

----------------------------------

After the shown development - 5C.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mgoetze]

 P_Marlowe, on 2011-June-05, 10:05, said:

X - penalty.

Penalty for what - diamonds? One major? Both majors?

[gnasher]

I would have bid 5♣ over 3♦, partly because I have a good hand in support of clubs, and partly because I don't see why pass should be forcing. My double of 1NT doesn't set up a game-force, and I'd expect partner to bid 2♠ with more or less any 6-4 and some 5-4s.

Regarding the original question, an easy solution is to play transfers:
Double = a hand that would have made a negative double after 1♣ (2♦)
2♣ = natural non-forcing
2♦/♥ = transfer
2♠ = clubs, invitational+

Although if I played against Raptor a lot I might consider a scheme where 2♣ shows 4+ hearts and 2♠ shows 4+ spades.

[gnasher]

And over 1NT I would have bid 2♦, showing a club raise.

[helene_t]

 mgoetze, on 2011-June-05, 08:33, said:

Hm, so noone has any useful defense against this bid? Can't be as bad as they always say then.

without agreements I would assume:
x=desire to defend
2♣=natural, 6-10
2♦=clubs, 10+
2M=natural, forcing (except for the fact that we are a passed hand
2NT=mwah ... maybe a good club raise with a diamond stopper
3♣=weak

With agreements, maybe those agreements would be:
x=desire to defend
2♣=natural, 6-10
2♦=hearts
2♥=spades
2♠=good club raise

[P_Marlowe]

 mgoetze, on 2011-June-05, 10:06, said:

Penalty for what - diamonds? One major? Both majors?

The penalty X is simply based on strength - make it 9/10HCP or better,
most of the time it will also be based on a bal. hand.
If you play tranfers after they overcall, you also eliminate 1 or 2-suited
hands.

The X should generate a FP until ???, most would say until 2NT.

In short - the meaning of X is similar to the meaning of X, if 1NT
would have been natural.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Reading Helenes post - the implication from my definition of X would be,
that 2M would be NF.

[nige1]

1NT showed 5+ diamonds, a 4-card major, and 8-15 points.
What do you bid with no special agreements about this situation? If you have agreements, what are they?

IMO...
_X = Maximum pass penalty interest.
2♦ = Majors
2♥/♠ = Natural non-forcing.
2N = Good ♣ raise (but wary of wrong-siding no-trump).
3♣ = Pre-emptive ♣ raise.
3♦ = Splinter ♣ raise.
3♥/♠ = Fit jump 4+ ♣ and 5+ bid suit (a nice complement to Raptor)

---

[Free]

I'd bid 2♦ immediately showing an INV+ hand with ♣ support. Perhaps it's a lack of experience against Raptor, but I don't see the point in doubling first, playing 4M sure doesn't look attractive. Playing Dbl as penalty doesn't make much sense, opps usually won't play 1NT imo.