BBO Discussion Forums: 5 Level belongs to... - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

5 Level belongs to...

Poll: 5 Level belongs to... (42 member(s) have cast votes)

Your Call?

  1. The Opponents (Double) (1 votes [2.38%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.38%

  2. The Opponents (Pass) (10 votes [23.81%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.81%

  3. Us! (5S) (31 votes [73.81%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 73.81%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

  • Vesuvius the Violent Volcano
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,216
  • Joined: 2008-December-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa-Area, Florida
  • Interests:SLEEPING

Posted 2011-March-28, 11:27

Both the opponents and partner are national champions, what is your call over 5♦?
IMPs.

Yay for the "Ignored Users" feature!
0

#2 User is offline   helene_t 

  • The Abbess
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,196
  • Joined: 2004-April-22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UK

Posted 2011-March-28, 12:02

5♠. We are in an FP when opps are obviously saving so I show my weakness by bidding now rather than next round.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
0

#3 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2011-March-28, 12:06

What are you talking about? I have to contract for 11 tricks in order to say I expect to make no more than 10? That logic escapes me B-)

Pass.
0

#4 User is offline   PrecisionL 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 978
  • Joined: 2004-March-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Knoxville, TN, USA
  • Interests:Diamond LM (6700+ MP)
    God
    Family
    Counseling
    Bridge

Posted 2011-March-28, 13:45

Pass. You have less than partner expects you to have and he did not double first. It is not a forcing pass situation in my partnerships.
Ultra ♣ Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canape Club is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)

Santa Fe Precision ♣ published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail ♣. 2020. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified ♣ (Canape & Relay). 2022: Canary ♣ Modernized, 2023-4: KOK Canape.
0

#5 User is offline   bluecalm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,555
  • Joined: 2007-January-22

Posted 2011-March-28, 13:47

5♠ but I am in no way convinced it's correct bid. I suppose it will work often enough. Even if we don't make sufficient % of the time they will sometimes bid 6♦. The idea of pass being forcing here wouldn't even occur to me. Crazy !
0

#6 User is offline   kayin801 

  • Modern Day Trebuchet Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 738
  • Joined: 2007-October-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western Mass.

Posted 2011-March-28, 14:54

I think pass is forcing because I can't think of a hand partner can have on this auction which he'd let them play in 5♦ undoubled. If RHO weren't passed then obviously this isn't a FP. 5♠ seems normal, no matter which round suit partner has "length" in we have a good hand for him (either ruffs or a suit). Any hand where partner has the ♥A and the ♠3 should be safe.
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

East4Evil ♥ sohcahtoa 4ever!!!!!1
0

#7 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2011-March-28, 15:04

if pass is forcing then that's my bid
BridgeGod: my personal website with interactive problems and articles
0

#8 User is offline   matmat 

  • ded
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,459
  • Joined: 2005-August-11
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2011-March-28, 15:18

View PostFluffy, on 2011-March-28, 15:04, said:

if pass is forcing then that's my bid

If 6♠ happens to be making, then I bid that...

I don't really see how this can be a FP situation.
1

#9 User is offline   JLOGIC 

  • 2011 Poster of The Year winner
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,002
  • Joined: 2010-July-08
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-March-28, 15:34

How can this not be a forcing pass situation? RHO is a passed hand, LHO has preempted white/red in third seat, and partner has jumped to game showing a strong hand. The ability to defend 5D undoubled in this scenario does not make logical sense. Yes I'm sure you can come up with some layouts where they are cold and we are down 500, but it is so unlikely I wouldn't even worry about it (and even then, we haven't lost much). On the other side having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful.
blogging at http://www.justinlall.com
0

#10 User is offline   matmat 

  • ded
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,459
  • Joined: 2005-August-11
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2011-March-28, 15:52

View PostJLOGIC, on 2011-March-28, 15:34, said:

How can this not be a forcing pass situation? RHO is a passed hand, LHO has preempted white/red in third seat, and partner has jumped to game showing a strong hand. The ability to defend 5D undoubled in this scenario does not make logical sense. Yes I'm sure you can come up with some layouts where they are cold and we are down 500, but it is so unlikely I wouldn't even worry about it (and even then, we haven't lost much). On the other side having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful.


And this is why I suck at bridge.
0

#11 User is offline   aguahombre 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,029
  • Joined: 2009-February-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. George, UT

Posted 2011-March-28, 16:10

View PostJLOGIC, on 2011-March-28, 15:34, said:

How can this not be a forcing pass situation? ... having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful.


O.K., so is knowing that partner will not pass 5D the same as a "FP situation", making pass and pull stronger, etc? Which, of pass, 5♠, or double, with this hand, will give partner the necessary information --remembering we can't go back from 5S?
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
0

#12 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2011-March-28, 16:36

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-March-28, 16:10, said:

O.K., so is knowing that partner will not pass 5D the same as a "FP situation", making pass and pull stronger, etc?

Yes, if it's purely the auction that tells us that partner won't pass. Why wouldn't it be the same?

Not that it matters here, though. I have four-card support and the values I have are offensive. 5♠ looks clear.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#13 User is offline   Phil 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,092
  • Joined: 2008-December-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas, USA
  • Interests:Mountain Biking

Posted 2011-March-28, 17:11

The poll is wrong.

The 5 level belongs to us....but I pass :)
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
0

#14 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,247
  • Joined: 2010-October-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 2011-March-28, 17:55

View PostPhil, on 2011-March-28, 17:11, said:

The poll is wrong.

The 5 level belongs to us....but I pass :)

The 5-level belongs to Nigel ...
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
0

#15 User is offline   MrAce 

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,971
  • Joined: 2009-November-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 2011-March-28, 21:35

Pass is forcing. So passing doesnt make sense to me, if u wanna defend 5♦ then DBL, if u wanna play 5♠ bid it, if you wanna turn on pd for slam pass and then lift his DBL to 5♠.

I want to play 5♠ and i am bidding it without giving hope for slam to pd.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
0

#16 User is offline   cherdano 

  • 5555
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,519
  • Joined: 2003-September-04
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-March-28, 23:03

I think it's a clear forcing pass situation, but I also don't see how it matters. I seem to have an obvious 5♠ bid either way.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
0

#17 User is offline   dake50 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,211
  • Joined: 2006-April-22

Posted 2011-March-29, 06:13

If this is 5S, how do I show an A better?
How can partner guess we make 6S or 7S or just near 5S?
KJxxx side suit enough with 4-support?
I can't believe partner has S:AKxxxx H:AQx D:x C:Axx
and only jumped to 4S - not eg. Q-bid/Dbl first.
0

#18 User is offline   dake50 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,211
  • Joined: 2006-April-22

Posted 2011-March-29, 06:19

I'm trying to see how to suggest any upside.
Clear 5S has little/no downside - makes on near make.
But, what if partner is going up based on 5S raise?
Take those lumps?
Expect pass to X then 5S if A added - pass and pull strong?
I think this is a slam help vs. competing problem.
0

#19 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2011-March-29, 08:20

View PostJLOGIC, on 2011-March-28, 15:34, said:

How can this not be a forcing pass situation? RHO is a passed hand, LHO has preempted white/red in third seat, and partner has jumped to game showing a strong hand. The ability to defend 5D undoubled in this scenario does not make logical sense. Yes I'm sure you can come up with some layouts where they are cold and we are down 500, but it is so unlikely I wouldn't even worry about it (and even then, we haven't lost much). On the other side having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful.


I disagree. It is clear that responder is saving, but OPENER may well have a decent hand. You also know pard is probably counting on a trick or two from us to make 4♠. Perhaps we have those 1-2 tricks, but we certainly don't seem have 3 to take the push to 5♠.

It is just possible that 5♦ and 4♠ both fail, in which case pass is the better bid. I would consider to have a real problem if pard dbls.
0

#20 User is offline   bluecalm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,555
  • Joined: 2007-January-22

Posted 2011-March-29, 08:49

Quote

How can this not be a forcing pass situation? RHO is a passed hand, LHO has preempted white/red in third seat, and partner has jumped to game showing a strong hand. The ability to defend 5D undoubled in this scenario does not make logical sense. Yes I'm sure you can come up with some layouts where they are cold and we are down 500, but it is so unlikely I wouldn't even worry about it (and even then, we haven't lost much). On the other side having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful.


I bid 5♠ fast, maybe it will make maybe they will save.
I don't see how we gain by added "precision". I want to pass with nothing, bid with something and double if I can't resist licking my chops. Color me yellow...
0
  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

6 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 6 guests, 0 anonymous users